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Conflict in the Middle East

Anti-semitism in the UK

797 replies

Lolapusht · 13/07/2025 11:02

Published yesterday I believe.

Evidence of anti-Semitism in the UK

Not sure if that link will work so…

https://x.com/nicolelampert/status/1944147294917439912?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
JoyDivision79 · 15/07/2025 19:51

Beachtastic · 15/07/2025 19:48

I'm not Jewish either, but have been polarised by the sanctimonious indifference on MN since 7 Oct and the "virtue signallng" parades on our streets. This callous blindness is the scariest social development I've ever witnessed in the almost 7 decades of my life.

I'm not Jewish either. I am however finding this whole scenario unfolding a bit scary and really grotesque.

Lolapusht · 15/07/2025 19:51

Hearing · 15/07/2025 18:04

So your saying that civilians ran through the fence raped and then went back in?

Yes.

OP posts:
StoneofDestiny · 15/07/2025 19:53

The Jewish Voice For Peace
Jewish Voice for Peace is guided by a vision of justice, equality and freedom for all people. We unequivocally oppose Zionism because it is counter to those ideals.
We know that opposing Zionism, or even discussing it, can be painful, can strike at the deepest trauma and greatest fears of many of us. Zionism is a nineteenth-century political ideology that emerged in a moment where Jews were defined as irrevocably outside of a Christian Europe. European antisemitism threatened and ended millions of Jewish lives — in pogroms, in exile, and in the Holocaust.
Through study and action, through deep relationship with Palestinians fighting for their own liberation, and through our own understanding of Jewish safety and self determination, we have come to see that Zionism was a false and failed answer to the desperately real question many of our ancestors faced of how to protect Jewish lives from murderous antisemitism in Europe.
While it had many strains historically, the Zionism that took hold and stands today is a settler-colonial movement, establishing an apartheid state where Jews have more rights than others. Our own history teaches us how dangerous this can be.
Palestinian dispossession and occupation are by design. Zionism has meant profound trauma for generations, systematically separating Palestinians from their homes, land, and each other. Zionism, in practice, has resulted in massacres of Palestinian people, ancient villages and olive groves destroyed, families who live just a mile away from each other separated by checkpoints and walls, and children holding onto the keys of the homes from which their grandparents were forcibly exiled.
Because the founding of the state of Israel was based on the idea of a “land without people,” Palestinian existence itself is resistance. We are all the more humbled by the vibrance, resilience, and steadfastness of Palestinian life, culture, and organizing, as it is a deep refusal of a political ideology founded on erasure.
In sharing our stories with one another, we see the ways Zionism has also harmed Jewish people. Many of us have learned from Zionism to treat our neighbors with suspicion, to forget the ways Jews built home and community wherever we found ourselves to be. Jewish people have had long and integrated histories in the Arab world and North Africa, living among and sharing community, language and custom with Muslims and Christians for thousands of years.
By creating a racist hierarchy with European Jews at the top, Zionism erased those histories and destroyed those communities and relationships. In Israel, Jewish people of color – from the Arab world, North Africa, and East Africa – have long been subjected to systemic discrimination and violence by the Israeli government. That hierarchy also creates Jewish spaces where Jews of color are marginalized, our identities and commitments questioned & interrogated, and our experiences invalidated. It prevents us from seeing each other — fellow Jews and other fellow human beings — in our full humanity.
Zionist interpretations of history taught us that Jewish people are alone, that to remedy the harms of antisemitism we must think of ourselves as always under attack and that we cannot trust others. It teaches us fear, and that the best response to fear is a bigger gun, a taller wall, a more humiliating checkpoint.
Rather than accept the inevitability of occupation and dispossession, we choose a different path. We learn from the anti-Zionist Jews who came before us, and know that as long as Zionism has existed, so has Jewish dissent to it. Especially as we face the violent antisemitism fueled by white nationalism in the United States today, we choose solidarity. We choose collective liberation. We choose a future where everyone, including Palestinians and Jewish Israelis, can live their lives freely in vibrant, safe, equitable communities, with basic human needs fulfilled.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is Zionism? Where did it come from?
Zionism is a form of Jewish nationalism, and is the primary ideology that drove the establishment of Israel. Zionism began in the late 19th century in the context of a set of huge changes in political, cultural, social landscape of Jewish life in Europe, along with the general rise of nationalist movements and nation-state political forms. For Jews in Europe, this meant a sharp rise in violent antisemitism. Jewish people – even though they had lived in Europe for centuries – were fundamentally excluded from the ways European nations defined themselves. This resulted in violent, targeted, anti-Jewish massacres in Russia, known as pogroms; the development of anti-Jewish conspiracy theories like Protocols of the Elders of Zion; and the re-emergence of older antisemitic tropes, like blood libels, which claim that Jewish people use the blood of Christian children in rituals.
Some Jewish people responded to this antisemitism by attempting to assimilate into the European countries they lived in; this often proved impossible. Many Jewish people – over 2.5 million – left as refugees, coming to the United States or other parts of Europe. Others, most famously the Bund, rejected the concept of nationalism altogether or turned to revolutionary socialism. And some, notably Theodore Herzl, often seen as the founder of Zionism, thought that Jews themselves constituted a separate people, and should therefore have a state of their own. Herzl and other early Zionist thinkers were also very influenced by European settler colonial thinking, often explicitly making the case that a Jewish state in Palestine would be a European colony similar to the British presence in India.
It is important to note that people who consider themselves Zionist have different interpretations of what that label means in the present political moment, to them personally, and historically. Moreover, over time, multiple strains of Zionism have emerged, including political Zionism, religious Zionism, and cultural Zionism.

  • Political: When people refer to “Zionism” today, this is often what they mean. Founded by 19th Century thinker Theodore Herzl, it sees the “Jewish problem” as having a solution in a “Jewish state.” As nationalism rose in Europe, many, including Herzl, saw Jews as outsiders to the nation, unable or unwilling to assimilate or be fully accepted as members of the nation-state. According to Herzl, this “problem” should be solved by a community of nations by establishing a Jewish state in Palestine.
  • Religious: Many, but not all, forms of Zionism have their roots in theological interpretations. It is important to note that this form of Zionism is not exclusive to Jewish religious traditions. For example, some evangelical Christian denominations believe that in order to facilitate the second coming of Christ, Jews must “gather” in Israel as part of Biblical prophecy.
  • Cultural: Most often attributed to Herzl’s contemporary, Ahad Ha’am (Asher Ginsberg), this form of Zionism called for a spiritual and cultural center for Jewish people in Palestine, but not for a “Jewish state” in the same way Herzl did. Instead, this form of Zionism calls for Jews to share a national language and culture.
The political ideology of Zionism, regardless of which strain, has resulted in the establishment of a Jewish nation-state in the land of historic Palestine. In 1948, 750,000 Palestinians were expelled as part of that process, their homes and property confiscated. Despite recognition of their rights by the United Nations, their rights to return and be compensated have long been denied by the US and Israel. In 1967, Israel occupied what is now known as the Occupied Palestinian Territories, putting millions of people under military rule. Longstanding systemic inequalities privilege Jews over Palestinians inside Israel and in the Occupied Territories. For more, please see this speech by former JVP Deputy Director Cecilie Surasky, “Settler colonialism, white supremacy, and the ‘special relationship’ between the U.S. and IsraelWhat is anti-Zionism? “Anti-Zionism” is a loose term referring to criticism of the current policies of the Israeli state, and/or moral, ethical, or religious criticism of the idea of a Jewish nation-state. There has been debate, criticism and opposition to Zionism within Jewish thought for as long as it has existed. Jewish anti-Zionists span a political and religious spectrum, from religious and secular progressives who view opposition to Zionism as an anti-racist praxis, to ultra-Orthodox Jews who oppose Jewish dominion until the time of the Messiah, to anarchist Jews who oppose the very concept of nation-states, Jewish or otherwise. There are also many non-Jewish anti-Zionists whose perspectives may be informed by moral criticism of the policies of the Israeli government, problems with the impact of Zionist thinking in Israel on non-Jewish residents, and/or a criticism of ethno-nationalism more broadly. Many Palestinians take anti-Zionist positions or identify as anti-Zionist because of the current and historical practices of the Israeli state. Criticism of Zionism is not to be conflated with antisemitism. States such as Israel and the United States are openly criticized in public life, and their political beliefs and policies are subject to critical debate, in accord with our basic First Amendment rights. For more on the history of Jewish alternatives to Zionism, please see this blog post by former JVP staffer Ben Lorber. For more on the problems of conflating antisemitism with anti-Zionism, please see this op-ed by NY Times columnist Michelle Goldberg. For more on criticisms of Zionism, please see these excerpts from “Zionism from the Standpoint of its Victims” by Edward Said.

https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Edward-Said-Excerpt.pdf

noblegiraffe · 15/07/2025 19:55

@StoneofDestiny you appear to be on this thread merely to cut and paste and broadcast statements. This is a discussion forum. You have been asked questions and not replied.

I think you would be better suited to twitter rather than Mumsnet.

Dangermoo · 15/07/2025 20:00

I wonder why the ideology of Zionism and its strands, ruffles so many feathers -always in the attempt at discrediting it. I'm seeing those unpleasant undertones - again.

veiledsentiments · 15/07/2025 20:15

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Lolapusht · 15/07/2025 20:22

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Hang on, ignoring your revolting turn of phrase, do you not know that civilians also took part in 7 Oct attacks?

Hamas etc filmed them on their GoPros.

OP posts:
StoneofDestiny · 15/07/2025 20:22

Thanks noblegiraffe I’ll stick with what I’m doing - you slope off if you don’t like it. My views have been made crystal clear and I’m helping provide an alternative point of view for people to read. Maybe you just want an echo chamber for your singular view and shut down what you cannot argue with?

Voxon · 15/07/2025 20:26

Antizionism is not a movement. It's a cult.

They've come to a post on Jewish trauma to:

Tell Jews they deserved it

Deny that Jewish women were raped

Downplay the atrocities of October 7

Blame literally everything on Israel

Deny Jews the right to self-determination

And when you call it out?

“Oh no no, I care so deeply about the children. I could not keep silent” and then they DARVO it around to make out the victim can't be a victim because... anti zionism.

Yeah. Sure you do.

Voxon · 15/07/2025 20:28

StoneofDestiny · 15/07/2025 20:22

Thanks noblegiraffe I’ll stick with what I’m doing - you slope off if you don’t like it. My views have been made crystal clear and I’m helping provide an alternative point of view for people to read. Maybe you just want an echo chamber for your singular view and shut down what you cannot argue with?

This is a thread about antisemitism in the UK. It is not a place for you to post marketing materials for anti zionism. Please leave

StoneofDestiny · 15/07/2025 20:32

Just as an aside - on a fact finding visit, I had the displeasure in being spoken to by a pro settler Israeli - who thought we’d appreciate being shown the land where new settlements would be ‘put down’ against International Law. The sense of entitlement and blind ideology that it was the god given right of Jews to take all the land they could was horrific. It was ‘Manifest Destiny’ stuff all over again. Nothing worth than fundamentalism in any form whether Christian, Jewish or Islamic.

StoneofDestiny · 15/07/2025 20:33

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quantumbutterfly · 15/07/2025 20:35

EllaDisenchanted · 15/07/2025 19:19

Turn out your pockets, Jew.

It's taken a bit of a hateful turn hasn't it? 😔

A lot of rage bait from limited contributors, best not to bite. Take care.

Kind of proves the point sadly.

dairydebris · 15/07/2025 20:36

Lolapusht · 15/07/2025 20:22

Hang on, ignoring your revolting turn of phrase, do you not know that civilians also took part in 7 Oct attacks?

Hamas etc filmed them on their GoPros.

I've added a link below to the OHCHR report on 7 October, page 6, paragraph 20, the report states that at least 1000 Palestinian civilians crossed the border to take part in the atrocities against Israel.

www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session56/a-hrc-56-crp-3.pdf

This is for anyone who doubts Palestinian civilians were involved.

@veiledsentiments will black is white and vv and in my experience its pointless to attempt to talk to them.

Beachtastic · 15/07/2025 20:37

Nothing worth than fundamentalism in any form whether Christian, Jewish or Islamic.

I absolutely agree, but what has that to do with a thread on the rise of antisemitism in the UK?

Voxon · 15/07/2025 20:37

This reply has been deleted

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The insult “entitled” means someone thinks they deserve special treatment, privileges, or rewards without earning them or acknowledging others' needs or rights.

When someone is called "entitled," it usually implies:

They act like the world owes them something.

They expect things to go their way, regardless of effort, fairness, or context.

They show little gratitude, humility, or awareness of others.

Can you please explain why you feel it's "entitled" for British Jews to have a thread on antisemitism in the UK?

Or do you mean they are just not entitled to you gatecrashing it with antisemitism?

TinklySnail · 15/07/2025 20:44

What religion are you @StoneofDestiny?
Do you live in the uk or Palestine?

StoneofDestiny · 15/07/2025 20:46

Can you please explain why you feel it's "entitled" for British Jews to have a thread on antisemitism in the UK?
Or do you mean they are just not entitled to you gatecrashing it with antisemitism?

I'm hoping your comprehension skills might improve with time - but I have not suggested it was ‘entitled’ of British Jews to have a thread on antisemitism. Nor have I said anything antisemitic.

Maybe don’t tell people what they can talk about, where they can talk about it or put words in their mouth.

To exist in an echo chamber of your own views risks existing in ignorance forever.

StoneofDestiny · 15/07/2025 20:47

What religion are you ?
Do you live in the uk or Palestine?

Why would you need to know that?

veiledsentiments · 15/07/2025 20:52

Voxon · 15/07/2025 20:26

Antizionism is not a movement. It's a cult.

They've come to a post on Jewish trauma to:

Tell Jews they deserved it

Deny that Jewish women were raped

Downplay the atrocities of October 7

Blame literally everything on Israel

Deny Jews the right to self-determination

And when you call it out?

“Oh no no, I care so deeply about the children. I could not keep silent” and then they DARVO it around to make out the victim can't be a victim because... anti zionism.

Yeah. Sure you do.

Zionism is a cult invented by Theodore Hertz in the nineteenth century.

Voxon · 15/07/2025 20:54

StoneofDestiny · 15/07/2025 20:46

Can you please explain why you feel it's "entitled" for British Jews to have a thread on antisemitism in the UK?
Or do you mean they are just not entitled to you gatecrashing it with antisemitism?

I'm hoping your comprehension skills might improve with time - but I have not suggested it was ‘entitled’ of British Jews to have a thread on antisemitism. Nor have I said anything antisemitic.

Maybe don’t tell people what they can talk about, where they can talk about it or put words in their mouth.

To exist in an echo chamber of your own views risks existing in ignorance forever.

Perfect! We agree Jews are entitled to a thread discussing antisemitism in the UK. So please stop trying to change the topic to antizionism, which is, as per the IHRA definition of antisemitism, indeed antisemitic.

noblegiraffe · 15/07/2025 20:56

@veiledsentiments are you going to care to explain why you accused me of hate speech?

noblegiraffe · 15/07/2025 20:56

StoneofDestiny · 15/07/2025 20:22

Thanks noblegiraffe I’ll stick with what I’m doing - you slope off if you don’t like it. My views have been made crystal clear and I’m helping provide an alternative point of view for people to read. Maybe you just want an echo chamber for your singular view and shut down what you cannot argue with?

You couldn't even answer the question

Is the statement "Zionists are controlling your government" antisemitic?

veiledsentiments · 15/07/2025 20:57

noblegiraffe · 15/07/2025 20:56

@veiledsentiments are you going to care to explain why you accused me of hate speech?

No.

noblegiraffe · 15/07/2025 20:58

veiledsentiments · 15/07/2025 20:57

No.

I see.

So therefore you retract it.