To wish those in Israel safety in these coming times

[mids2019]

Israel is a country at war and I know many will have links or family in that country so I think it appropriate to wish them safety in the coming days.

That framing ignores both the reality on the ground at the time and what actually followed. The idea that Palestinians could have “remained where they were under the Israeli flag” overlooks the fact that over 700,000 Palestinians were forcibly expelled or fled in fear during and after the 1948 war. Their homes and villages were destroyed, and they were never allowed to return. Many still hold the keys to homes that no longer exist.

Yes, some Palestinians remained and became Arab citizens of Israel, but they lived under military rule for nearly 20 years and continue to face discrimination to this day. Simply pointing to their existence does not erase the Nakba or its consequences.

As for the claim that Palestinian identity did not exist, identities evolve, especially in response to political realities. By that logic, Zionist identity also developed over time. The absence of a formal Palestinian state does not mean people lacked a national consciousness or a rightful connection to the land.

And while it is true that Arab states and Palestinian militias rejected the partition and went to war, that does not justify the scale of the ethnic cleansing that followed. Entire villages were wiped out, and a massive refugee crisis was created, one that has never been resolved.

If the goal is to understand and not just defend, we need to acknowledge that Palestinians were not simply paying the price for starting a war. They were dispossessed and made stateless through a process that continues in many forms today. Ignoring that only deepens the injustice.

Quite the pattern isn't it?

Start a war.
Lose the war.
Complain about direct consequences of said war.

It’s astonishing how casually people expect Palestinians to accept being forced from their homes. Imagine someone showing up at your door with a weapon, telling you to leave because their ancestors lived there thousands of years ago. Would you calmly walk away from your house, your land, your memories? Of course not. So why is it treated as reasonable when it happens to Palestinians? Were they not supposed to fight back?

Not a resistance movement. What they did on 7/10 was not resistance.

Not a mainstream view.

You're on dodgy ground there.

That’s a very simplistic view of what happened and how Arab rights were sidelined.

https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/

Yup... repeat over and over again.

Unfortunately that’s not how international law works, but those supporting Israel seem to want to interpret the law only when it helps Israel.

Here is but one reference

“In modern times, there are only three forms of legal territory gain. They are cession, accretion, and occupation. Cession is when a treaty is reached and land is willingly given from one state to another, without the use of force. Accretion is simply the natural addition of land mass through geological processes. Anything other than these three forms is considered an aggressive act of conquest, and is seen as illegal. A distinction will be made between occupation and conquest, as the two can appear very similar at times. Occupation will be defined as a temporary military takeover of a local government, with no intention of extended physical presence, no alteration of local government, and full relinquishment of local territory upon foreign withdrawal (International Committee of the Red Cross 2004).”

https://www.processjmus.org/the-principle-of-conquest

No idea what you're on about.

My post was agreeing with another poster about the pattern:

Start a war.
Lose the war.
Complain about direct consequences of said war.

Winning a war does not give you rights to the land
read the link

Who mentioned winning a war?

The pattern being noted was

Start a war.
Lose the war.
Complain about direct consequences of said war.

I find it really depressing that the Palestinians and the Israelis just can’t come to an agreement on the land. Partition of land is painful of course and it involves people often having to leave their homes but it enables complete self governance for both with zero obligation to each other. Then you can build a massive fuck off wall, mine it and then just ignore each other.

But yes I wish all civilians in the region peace and safety absolutely. I don’t care much if they are Israeli, Palestinian, Iranian, Syrian etc. I think there is so much dehumanising around and I have to say as someone who is not as emotionally invested as some of you are that Israelis are people too. Some Israelis are horrible, some will be practically saints, most will be normal people but the level of hatred levelled at Israelis I see just wouldn’t be ok if it was levelled at Palestinians.

Theres a viciousness on the pro Palestinian side which is something to behold. They will scream about dead Palestinian children but barely spare a thought for dead Israeli children.

I don’t think thats morality I think thats ideology.

This comes as across as dismissive of Palestinian concerns and suffering.

Israel is illegally occupying their land according to international law. Is it surprising that Palestinians have not readily accepted this? I wonder what the position would be in the ME had Palestinians the same military might as has been bestowed on Israel.

What they did on 7/10 was not resistance.
Agree I never said it was I was referring to the mainstream description of Hamas which is on most government websites that is how Hamas are described. Not sure what dodgy ground you think I'm on.

I literally don’t care about your opinion at all, no idea why you keep tagging me.

Who mentioned winning a war?
Well if someone loses a war, as you mentioned, it means there's a winner. I'm sure the poster took that understanding as a given

See Above.

What this?
I literally don’t care about your opinion at all, no idea why you keep tagging me.

Because I was responding to your post? I thought that was the point of these threads- to discuss things.

It is. I'm assuming when all else fails personally attack. Not sure what the point of posting here is if you aren't interested in anyone else's opinion

Which government websites? UK.gov has it as a proscribed terrorist group (no mention of 'resistance'), EU consider it a proscribed terrorist group.

And around in circles we go once more.

The founding of the Jewish state wasn't contingent on expelling any Arab inhabitants of the land. They could have gone on to live happily under the Israeli flag.

Those who were expelled (a small percentage of the total displaced), was in response to violence and waging war against the Jews. A war of hatred that was totally unnecessary and ended up dearly costing those who started it.

It's a simple as that.

As to the Arabs living under military law for some years, that is true. It took time for Israel to get over the trauma of having been attacked by the many Arab nations hell bent on annihilating it. However, once that passed, the Arabs got full citizenship and are treated equal under the law.

As to Palestinian identity, my point was that the only thing one loses when the flag of their country changes, is their identity. If Ireland were to become united, people of Northern Ireland wouldn't lose their homes, only their national identity. And that is something many would object to. Understandably.

But with Israel, there was no Palestinian identity at the time. Meaning an Arab living in Tel Aviv wasn't standing to lose anything by his town being part of Israel. So why wage war against the Jews?

Yet wage war they did, and lost. Tough. Stop harping on about it 80 years in.

BTW there were many people in the last century who lost property. They aren't harping on about a right to return, they just moved on. A huge number of Jews from Europe lost their houses during WWII. You don't see them going on about it. They moved on to different countries, resettled in rebuilt their lives. There are no Jews now who are 'refugees' from Poland etc. Certainly not their great grandchildren.

Rightly or wrongly, if some Arabs lost their property 80 years ago, it's time for their descendants to move on.

Stop trying to determine whether or not @purpletablet defends Hamas and instead read what she has to say and address that.

What she writes is factually correct, clearly laid out and the arguments are well presented. (God, this sounds like a school report !)

This crap between Israel and its neighbours will continue until the fundamental issue, a Palestinian state, is at least addressed.

Thank you Purps for expressing very clearly, what I think , but would be unable to write so lucidly.

You’re repeating a familiar but highly misleading narrative. The idea that Palestinians could have simply accepted the creation of Israel and gone on to live peacefully “under the Israeli flag” ignores what was actually happening on the ground in 1947 to 1949.

More than 700,000 Palestinians were displaced during this period. Some were expelled at gunpoint, others fled in fear of violence, and almost all were later barred from returning. Their villages were destroyed, their homes confiscated, and their legal right of return ignored. This violated both UN Resolution 194 and the Fourth Geneva Convention. To call that a “small percentage” of the population is simply false. It was around half of all Palestinians in Mandate Palestine.

You claim this was just a consequence of war, but that does not hold up to historical scrutiny. Large-scale expulsions were already taking place in cities like Haifa, Jaffa, and Lydda before the Arab armies invaded. Entire communities were displaced long before a Palestinian state could have existed, and regardless of whether political leaders accepted partition.

More importantly, the refugees were civilians, not military commanders or political elites. Rejecting a political plan does not justify the collective punishment of hundreds of thousands of people. And there is no evidence that accepting the Jewish state would have guaranteed protection for Arab villagers. In fact, many areas that were assigned to the Arab state under the UN partition plan were invaded and depopulated by Zionist militias. This strongly suggests that the goal was not just defense, but territorial expansion beyond the proposed borders.

It is true that some Palestinians remained and became citizens of Israel. But they lived under military rule until 1966 and still face structural discrimination today. This is well documented by both international human rights groups and Israeli civil society organisations.

As for the argument that Palestinians should simply “move on,” many remain stateless to this day. Millions live in refugee camps and have been denied the right to return, the right to resettle, and the right to reparations. Unlike Jewish refugees from Europe, who were largely absorbed into new states, Palestinians have been left in political limbo. This is not just a historical grievance. It is an ongoing violation of international law.

Did I see you state earlier you are Jewish?

I is.