To wish those in Israel safety in these coming times

[mids2019]

Israel is a country at war and I know many will have links or family in that country so I think it appropriate to wish them safety in the coming days.

I thought the latest attack by hammas was started because there had been good elations between them, people from Palestine were working in Israel and Israel was getting closer to Saudi.

Yes, the 1988 Hamas charter contains deeply antisemitic language, and I fully acknowledge that. It absolutely should be condemned. But it is also important to understand that a political movement’s founding document is not always a fixed or complete reflection of its evolving goals, strategies, or the views of the people it claims to represent.

Since then, Hamas has released more recent political statements, including a 2017 document that softened some of the language and stated that its conflict is with Zionism, not Judaism. That shift may be imperfect or unconvincing to some, but it shows an attempt to present a more political position, especially in international contexts.

Most importantly, the broader point still stands. We can acknowledge Hamas’s antisemitism while also recognising that the wider conflict is not simply about religious hatred. It is about land, occupation, displacement, and political power. Reducing the entire Palestinian struggle to Hamas’s most extreme rhetoric is like reducing all Israeli policy to its most hardline settler movements. It shuts down the real conversation that needs to happen about justice, rights, and ending the violence.

I can't work out whether this is satire.

Me too. How is it possible to read the words that come out of their mouths and conclude they do not hate Jews.

Nope, you're not making it better. This is the most disgraceful apologism.

Worst one I've seen today - and there have been many - is that Jews have a delusion of grandeur when it comes to antisemitism.

Yes, that's quite something. And trotting out the tired old 'oh its zionism' they have a problem with...did they type it with a straight face I wonder. I mean really, who falls for that?

You’re so naive @purpletablet if you really believe that just because a terrorist organisation changes the wording from Jew to Zionism that reflects a genuine change of heart.

The glee that Hamas have displayed towards Jewish suffering on October 7th and afterwards - at the hostage exchange releases for example - shows us who they are & that the Jew hate is still strong.

Why are you & others so keen to defend them?

I am not defending Hamas. I have consistently condemned their antisemitic rhetoric and their attacks on civilians. Acknowledging that Hamas has political motivations alongside its hateful ideology is not the same as excusing or endorsing its actions.

What I am trying to do is keep the focus on the bigger picture. The suffering of Palestinians cannot all be dismissed or ignored simply because Hamas exists. Most Palestinians are not Hamas, and most of them have no control over Hamas’s decisions. They are the ones living under blockade, occupation, and military assault.

Pointing out the political dimensions of the conflict is not naivety. It is an attempt to understand why this cycle of violence keeps repeating. If we only frame everything as irrational hatred of Jews, we ignore the very real grievances and conditions that fuel this conflict. Condemning antisemitism and demanding justice for Palestinians are not mutually exclusive. In fact, both are necessary if we want peace.

Point out where the poster has said that Hamas don't hate Jews? They've acknowledged that numerous times. Do you believe they are solely about?

Honestly the level of debate on here is ridiculous. As I've said before it is a pretty mainstream view even the US government describes Hamas's ideology as combining Palestinian nationalism with Islamic fundamentalism.

Why are you & others so keen to defend them?
Can you point out where people are defending them? Debating their ideology and raisin d'etre is NOT defending them.

@purpletablet best leave it some people have very one dimensional thinking it's weird because what you are saying is something pretty much acknowledged everywhere

FFS there was nothing for them to give up in the first place. The land as a whole didn't belong to 'them' - whoever the heck that might be.

The Jews had a legitimate claim for their state to be (re)established in their ancestral homeland. The Arabs living in the region - mostly in what is now West Bank and Gaza - had a competing claim, based on centuries of residency.

But crucially, at the time, it wasn't anyone's yet. The partition plan was a very reasonable compromise, giving part to the Jews and part to the Arabs.

The reason - the only reason - the Arabs rejected it, was because they saw it as sacrilegious for Jews to rule over what they saw as Islamic land. The conflict is at its core anti Jewish.

It's not about nationalism at all. Had it been about that, they would hava spent 18 years building Gaza instead of firing missiles at Israel.

You would be amazed at just how much support Israel has got, outside the MN bubble.

What you apparently fail to understand @purpletablet is that by pretending that Hamas are not really that anti semitic and motivated largely by their hatred of Jews you are defending them.

Thankyou. Thats what I was trying to say but this is much more succinctly put.

@purpletablet
People keep referring back to the original Hamas charter about their not being an Israeli state in the region. But what about original Likud charter and we do not even need to back in history to see members of Knesset speaking about a greater Israel and the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

“The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. —Likud Party Platform, 1977”

River to sea for Hamas is clearly really bad and clearly antisemitic

For pro-Palestinians just wanting equal rights and peace for Palestinians = bad and antisemitic

River to sea for Israel = what’s wrong with that?
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/tnamp/

Some posters here do have a one sided view of things.

I have no issue with Israel so I'm sure they have plenty that support them and their existence. My issue is with the current Israeli government and their genocidal activities in Gaza

Well better tell the US government and most other governments that so because that's how they're described.

So Palestinians in the region didn’t own their land and homes?

Can we ask non- native Americans and Australians to leave their land - as it’s not their ancestors’- and we dont even need to go back thousands of years in these two cases. Somehow I can’t see an international law court agreeing to give native Americans and Australians their land back. Why should have the Arabs?

You know the Bible is not a legal document - even if it does promise land to the Israelites.

That is a very selective reading of history. The idea that the land “was not anyone’s” is simply not true. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were living there — in cities, villages, and on farms — with homes, schools, and communities. To suggest they had nothing to give up is to erase their existence.

The partition plan may have looked like a compromise to some, but to many Palestinians it felt like being asked to give up more than half their land to a newly arrived population, much of it supported by foreign powers. Their rejection was not only religious. It was also political and rooted in the fear of displacement, which turned out to be well-founded. Over 700,000 Palestinians were forced to flee or were expelled in 1948. That was not a theoretical concern. It became their lived reality.

If Jewish connection to the land is considered valid based on ancient ancestry, why is Palestinian connection, based on centuries of continuous residence, dismissed so easily?

If you believe Israel has a legitimate claim, why deny Palestinians the same right? And if giving up land is such a reasonable expectation for them, why does Israel refuse to give up land it illegally occupies today?

The conflict is not simply anti-Jewish. That framing reduces a complex history of colonisation, displacement, and occupation into a single religious issue. It allows people to avoid taking responsibility for the political and human rights violations that have taken place. Peace will not come through erasure or denial. It will come through justice, accountability, and equal rights for both peoples.

Once again, nobody was being asked to give up their personal property. They could have remained where they were under the Israeli flag. As indeed many did, and are now Arab Israeli citizens.

It's not even a question of asking anyone to give up their national identity, as a Palestinian identity didn't exist then.

And the reason many eventually did lose their personal property, is because they went to war. First with the Jews (Nov 1947) then with Israel (May 1948).

Very eloquently put 👏👏👏