To wish those in Israel safety in these coming times

[mids2019]

Israel is a country at war and I know many will have links or family in that country so I think it appropriate to wish them safety in the coming days.

The Palestinians ( not known as that at that time, should we say Arabs living in the area? ) did have backing. They and their supporters, the Arab League, chose war instead of state building.

You said they were dispossessed. Thats incorrect. It wasn't the plan for there to be no Jews in Palestine and no Arabs in Israel. The Arabs who left their homes did so because of the war that their side started. If war hadn't been declared by the Arab League, perhaps most of those people who lost their homes would still be there. You know, like the ones who are; living in Israel as Israeli Arab Citizens.

If in 1948 Palestinian leadership had declared Palestine a state instead of a war of annihilation on Israel, surely you can see Palestinians would be better off now?

Yes, there's a huge power imbalance now, because of the nation building Israel has achieved since 1948. Personally I have huge admiration for what they've achieved in such a short space of time.

I don't understand why you're so keen to write Palestinian agency out of the whole story.

And it goes on today. Its up to Israel to end the war on here, despite the fact that Hamas started it. Almost as if they couldn't help it, isn't it?

WTAF! They had the whole of the Arab world - the Arab League. Palestinians are Arabs. It was the Arab League who caused much of the displacement by telling them to leave while they wiped out the Jews which they subsequently catastrophically failed to do.

What do you think the Nakba (Great Catastrophe) was called that?

How many times and how many Arab armies started wars with Israel?

You are sounding more and more desperate and ridiculous.

If you’re really worried about nuclear weapons and global safety, you should be concerned about any country acting with impunity and dragging others into conflict. Israel’s actions don’t make the UK safer. They increase the risk of wider war and retaliation. And five people being arrested in London doesn’t justify bombing another nation without international oversight. That’s not security, it’s escalation. What you’re calling “hard facts” are really just selective outrage.

Talking of selective outrage...

"because Israel tries to prevent them carrying out terrorist attacks" is rather disingenuous. I'm thinking the stealing of their land, denial of their identity, erasure of their history, occupation of the tiny slice of their land they still have, economic subjugation, murder, violence, destruction of property, expulsion and detention without trial just might have been the problem?

Calling October 7th a “real genocide” is a distortion of both facts and the meaning of the word. What happened that day was horrifying, but genocide is the deliberate, systematic attempt to eliminate a people. That is what has been unfolding in Gaza for months: entire families wiped out, neighborhoods flattened, journalists, medics, and aid workers targeted, over 15,000 children killed, and deliberate starvation of an entire population.

You say Israelis have the right to feel rage. Fine, but that rage has translated into state-led mass killings, not just words. Palestinians, on the other hand, have been expected to watch their children die under rubble and somehow respond with perfect restraint. If you truly believed no one wants civilian casualties, you would condemn all of them, not justify one side’s based on who you believe loves their children more. That quote from Golda Meir reveals everything about the mindset behind this violence. It shifts blame for killing children onto their grieving parents.

Honestly the past few days have laid out the hypocracy of all of the pro Israel posters. Suddenly International law means something(if it's Israel being attacked) , attacking first means nothing(if you are Israeli), civillian infrastructure should be off limits(if it's Israeli), it's just fine to openly worship genocidal terrorist supporting maniacs(if they are Israeli), it's fine to be genocidal if you've been treated badly(if you are Israeli), it's OK to have a horrific regime running a country(if it's Israeli), is fine to have undeclared and uninspected nuclear weapons(if you are Israeli), it's OK to talk about and care about civillians in one place without mentioning every other conflict in the world(if those civilians are Israeli) and on and on it goes.

We just don't get that it really isn't double standards though because apparently we are all too busy being useful idiots learning everything from tiktok, supporting terrorists and being antisemitic to truly understand.

The idea that the Arab League told Palestinians to leave so they could “wipe out the Jews” has been debunked by historians, including Israeli ones. There’s no credible evidence of a coordinated evacuation order. In fact, many Palestinians fled in terror as news spread of massacres like Deir Yassin, or were forcibly expelled by Zionist militias during the war.

Yes, Palestinians are Arabs, but they are also a distinct people with their own identity, history and connection to the land. The Arab states absolutely played a role, but that doesn’t erase what was done to Palestinians on the ground. The Nakba is called the “Great Catastrophe” because hundreds of thousands of people lost their homes, their land and their right to return. That catastrophe has never ended.

Wars didn’t happen in a vacuum. Each war followed a pattern of displacement, military occupation, and settlement expansion. The imbalance of power today is so extreme that pretending this is a fair fight between equals is what’s truly ridiculous.

I dont really understand your first paragraph but am really impressed by the self awareness shown in the second. Bravo!

You don’t have to “support Iran” to recognise that it was Israel who struck first. That’s just acknowledging the facts. As for your comment about “both sides”, it isn’t an equal war. Israel has one of the most powerful militaries in the world and has used it to flatten entire neighbourhoods, kill tens of thousands of civilians, and displace over a million people. That’s not “guilt tripping,” that’s the human cost of what you’re defending

Well as Israel is not committing genocide, most of the above is just hyperbole.

I wish safety to every civilian at war, whichever country they are in. Much of the repressed population of Iran hate the regime,

If wishes were horses …….

Unfortunately , much of the world is run by madmen.

Military strategy. Israel is defending itself.

If you don’t believe it’s genocide, that is your view. But many legal experts, human rights organisations, and even UN officials have described what is happening in Gaza using exactly that term. Dismissing everything op said as “hyperbole” does not actually address any of the double standards they pointed out. If you want to disagree, then at least engage with the argument instead of brushing it off.

Oh so Hamas can't be genocidal because they haven't commited genocide. Noted 📝

What part of deliberately targeting Jewish people, in a murderous spree, don't you understand?

💯 constantly shifting goal posts when it suits their narrative

Purple, I applaud you for engaging with these posters. I knew entirely what you meant in your original comments, but trying to express anything other than blind support for Israel is staggeringly pointless.

It reminds me of falling in the trap with my 11 year old. The whataboutery, obfuscation and gaslighting - except it's cute on her.

The accusations on threads like this read to me like confessions.

It has become mildly entertaining.

Do I hear an echo?

Calling it “military strategy” doesn’t erase the scale of civilian death and destruction. You can’t claim it’s self-defence while entire neighbourhoods are reduced to rubble and tens of thousands of civilians are killed. That goes far beyond defending yourself. If another country did the same, people wouldn’t hesitate to call it a war crime. Israel shouldn’t be above that standard.

It honestly does feel like walking into a wall of rehearsed deflections and moral gymnastics. The refusal to engage with even the most basic facts, and the way any criticism is instantly twisted into something else, says more about their position than mine. You’re right, the accusations often sound like projections.

Except Israel is the country that has many Islamic extremists wanting to destroy it. You don't think those terrorists will turn its attention to the west, once they are done? I know I do, which is one reason I will always back Israel.

OK then.

What basic fact have any of us refused to engage with? I promise I'll listen.

If you'd like me to point to basic facts that you've not engaged with I'm happy to provide- Please let me know.

It'll be interesting to hear because I do agree it gets very difficult on here to even agree on basic facts, so moving on from that feels impossible...

Over to you...

Definition of echo chamber below. This is clearly not one because there is more than one view on things being put forward. Just because some disagree with you does not make it an an echo chamber. Maybe you are normally discussing things in a echo chamber so don't recognise an open discussion forum when you are in one

Echo chamber: an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.

Hang on, you got other posters above, making snarky comments about nobody listening to them and projecting. That is not respecting different opinions.