To wish those in Israel safety in these coming times

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Israel is a country at war and I know many will have links or family in that country so I think it appropriate to wish them safety in the coming days.

There is quite a bit of revisionism in your comment, so let me clarify a few things.

Palestinians were under Egyptian and Jordanian control from 1948 to 1967 because they were never allowed to form a sovereign state after the 1947 UN Partition Plan was rejected by both sides and war broke out. During that time, they remained largely stateless and without autonomy. That does not mean their identity did not exist.

The claim that Palestinian identity was invented in 1964 is not accurate. Palestinian nationalism began developing earlier, particularly in response to colonial rule and displacement. Like many national identities, it emerged over time. Identifying as Arabs did not erase their connection to the land or their desire for self-determination.

Gaza and the West Bank came under Israeli occupation after the 1967 war, when Israel captured those territories from Egypt and Jordan. Since then, Israel has imposed military rule, expanded settlements, and restricted basic freedoms. These are clear violations of international law.

As for the border walls, Egypt’s is largely a response to the destabilising effects of the blockade on Gaza. Israel’s separation wall in the West Bank has been widely criticised for annexing Palestinian land under the pretext of security.

You say you are not motivated by hate, but when Palestinian suffering is always explained away or blamed on them entirely, that raises questions. Thinking clearly also means being able to recognise injustice, no matter who is responsible for it.

Civilian death in war is horrific. Thats why if you’re going to start one, you provide shelter, take heed of evacuation warnings (and there’s enough evidence to show those were given even now again in Iran) and don’t support starting a war with another much stronger country, your government could even surrender and return hostages if they cared about civilians.

I’m sure Sheri Bibas was terrified when she and her babies were taken hostage after seeing god knows what atrocities being carried out around them.

I only hope she wasn’t forced to watch her babies being throttled and mutilated before she herself was murdered after enduring god knows what in captivity.

I’m sure the mothers of the women gang raped then mutilated and murdered would love to hear their daughters voices again.

The mothers of the soldiers whose heads were cut off and filmed, while fighting for their country, will probably live in a nightmare to the end of their days.

It is a fucking cruel world with savage people in it.

BTW do you deny that there are videos coming out of Gaza that are obviously staged and faked, and accounts that have been taken as fact by the MSM without full scrutiny? It’s not like propaganda was the whole basis of Hamas starting this militarily unwinnable war was it?

I can direct you to a site with lots of video evidence of this if you are interested?

Sorry WHO rejected the 1947 Partition Plan?

Why did war ‘break out’?

Why weren’t the Palestinians allowed to form a sovereign state while under Egyptian and Jordanian occupation? Who stopped them?

Why did the 1967 war break out?

When was the Palestinian flag incorporated?

Egypts wall wasn’t for quite the reason you have stated.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/egypt-builds-wall-changes-its-tune-israels-barrier

Revisionism indeed!

Israel bombed Iran first. Iran has every right to defend itself. Hard to believe that anyone could possibly still support Israel given how many innocent women and children they’ve killed in Gaza.

You are twisting words dishonestly. I would question the sanity who would NOT describe 7 October as savage. To wish death of those who committed such an atrocity is a normal human reaction. It is not genocidal. She did not say she wished all Palestinians to be wiped off the face off the earth. Unless you are saying all Palestinians were involved in 7 October? They cant then be innocent civilians. Palestinians aren't blamed for 'daring to exist'. They are blamed for committing horrendous atrocities.

No they didnt. People keep saying this but it doesnt make it true. Iran has been attacking Israel for years.

And yes, Netanyahu is a bloody hero for doing what no one else had the courage to do.

Well, he certainly has a fetish for dead babies and butchered children.

Honestly, some of these posts. It is no wonder the whole world is turning away from what was once, favourable support.

You say it’s not genocidal to wish death on the Palestinians who took part in October 7th. But the problem is that, in reality, the rage and punishment have not been limited to those individuals. Entire neighborhoods have been flattened, families wiped out, and tens of thousands of civilians, including children, have been killed. That is not targeted justice. That is collective punishment on a massive scale.

If you truly believe only the perpetrators should be held responsible, then why defend or excuse a response that has overwhelmingly harmed people who had nothing to do with that day?

What I find troubling is how quickly people demand absolute condemnation from Palestinians while offering endless justification for Israel’s far greater use of force. Yes, what happened on October 7th was horrific. But to suggest that all Palestinian suffering since then is the result of that one day is both dishonest and dehumanising.

You say it is normal to wish death on those responsible. Fine. But when Palestinians react with rage after decades of occupation, siege, and mass killing, they are labelled as terrorists or savages. That is the double standard being pointed out.

No, not all Palestinians were involved in October 7th. But Israel has responded by collectively punishing the entire population of Gaza. If you believe that is not genocide simply because no one used that exact word, that is a dangerously low standard to apply.

And yes, Palestinians are often blamed just for existing. Their homes are demolished, their land is taken, and even their right to a national identity is denied. Again, not all Palestinians committed atrocities on October 7th, but they’ve certainly all been blamed for it.

You do realize they could have had a state, an army, an economy, trade, everything that a successful state needs, if they'd actually declared a state like Israel did back in 1948- then spent the following decades building a future for their kids rather than focus on killing Jewish kids instead?
I hold the various Palestinian leaders accountable for this utter failure to put its people first. At every fork in the road they've chosen violence.
Palestinian lives are awful now yes. But its wilful misreading of history to suggest its all Israels fault. Back in 1948 other choices could have been made and Palestinians wouldn't be in this position.

Palestinians never got the chance to declare a state in 1948 because the land they lived on was carved up without their consent, and when they rejected being made stateless overnight, they were punished for it. Israel declared itself unilaterally and was immediately recognised and armed, while hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were expelled and have lived under occupation or in exile ever since.

You say they could have spent decades building a future, but how does that happen under military occupation, repeated bombings, land theft, and blockades? No amount of “better leadership” changes the fact that Palestinians have never had full control of their borders, airspace, economy, or safety.

Why are you blaming an oppressed people for not thriving under occupation?

You were incorrectly attacking one person on this site for having genocidal thoughts - don't cover yourself by extrapolating. And describing 7 October as just 'one day' is to minimise what was a genocidal attack. On that basis Im not terribly interested in whatever else you have to say.

So by that logic Hamas didn't start a war on oct 7th? because there has been back and forth attacks for years. People keep conveniently changing the rules to suit their narrative.

Israel's official declaration is that they launched Operation Rising Lion in response to intelligence that claimed to show Iran was approaching a point of no return in the development of nuclear weapons.

I wasn’t “incorrectly attacking” anyone. I responded to someone who explicitly said they would feel murderous and wanted people “wiped off the face of the earth.” If that’s not genocidal language, what is?

And yes, October 7 was horrific. But calling it “genocidal” while brushing aside the mass killing of civilians in Gaza for months as justified or unfortunate collateral damage shows selective empathy.

If you’re not interested in hearing the rest, that’s your choice. But don’t pretend it’s because my point wasn’t valid. It’s because it made you uncomfortable.

No its because you take what people say and misinterpret load your own agenda onto it, which is what you have just done with me.

Palestinians never got the chance to declare a state? Thats just incorrect. They chose not to, because they didn't want to share any of the land with Jews. They could have declared a state, albeit smaller than they might have wished. They chose not to, which in hindsight we can see was a huge error.

There wasn't a Palestinian state at that time as you know, so they weren't made stateless. They chose not to declare a state because they weren't happy with the division of land.

What do you mean Israel declared itself unilaterally? How else does a single state declare itself? Why didn't Palestine 'declare itself unilaterally' too then?

The Palestinian people wouldn't have been under 'military occupation' if they hadn't constantly funneled their resources into trying to violently slaughter Jews and end Israel.

This constantly infantilisation of Palestinians is so odd. They are where they are because of choices made by their leadership.

You've built your narrative to make them constant helpless victims. They are not.

@ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend Israel's official declaration is that they launched Operation Rising Lion in response to intelligence that claimed to show Iran was approaching a point of no return in the development of nuclear weapons.

That's correct, intelligence and the reported breach by the IAEA, and Iran can't have nukes because of their stated intention to destroy Israel, decades of attacks and ongoing regional destabilisation.

And Of course 7 Oct was a declaration of war by Hamas.

It’s funny because to me it seems like the Israel defenders on this forum are the ones twisting words, projecting their own assumptions, and accusing others of distortion when they’re the ones refusing to engage honestly.

There you go again, generalising.

@purpletablet

"It’s funny because to me it seems like the Israel defenders on this forum are the ones twisting words, projecting their own assumptions, and accusing others of distortion when they’re the ones refusing to engage honestly."

Personally I'm grateful for Israel bombing the crap out of Iran's nuclear weapons programme and saving the UK getting involved.

Two months ago five Iranians were arrested for planning a terrorist bomb attack in London. Imagine what would have happened if these people had access to nuclear bombs.

This is not "twisting words" or "projecting own assumptions " or "distortion " or any other bollocks buzz word bingo - it's hard facts.

And Of course 7 Oct was a declaration of war by Hamas.
So when it is Israel bombing Iran everything that happened before that is taken into account. When Hamas carried out a terrorist attack on Israel none of what happened before is taken into account?

In case there is any confusion I am not supporting Hamas or Iran just pointing out the usual double standards when it comes to Israel.

Oct 7th was an REAL genocide, you muppet!

I absolutely would feel murderous if Oct 7th happened to my family, community, people. I absolutely would want the perpetrators wiped off the face of the earth. That is a totally normal human response. What is not is you trying to insinuate that Israelis have no right to feel like that. Why don’t they? As I said their leadership luckily doesn’t let emotions make their decisions for them.

In your view, Palestinians are allowed to ‘express rage’ by embarking on a frenzy of slaughter, gang rape, dismemberment, decapitation, baby burning, mutilation, torture and kidnapping because Israel tries to prevent them from carrying out terrorist attacks and murdering Israelis but Israelis aren’t even allowed to express rage over Oct 7th in words?

The civilian casualties of war are just that. Every war has them, again why are Palestinians so special that you think there shouldn’t be any? Of course no one WANTS civilian casualties least of all Israel and the oniy reason the number is so high is due to Hamas using them as human sacrifices/martyrs. Their MO is well documented. The martyr ideology of Gazans is well documented. We in the West cannot fathom this so prefer not to believe it.

As Golda Meir said - ‘When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons. Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us’.

Its not a double standard if you understand the background. Tbe root of the problem is both Iran's and Hamas's refusal to accept Israel's existence. And nobody thinks Iran having nukes is a good idea, apart from a few people on here who think everyone should have them in the interests of fairness and sticking it to the West and Israel.

This take completely erases the power imbalance at play. Israel had international backing and recognition when it declared itself a state. The Palestinians were never given that kind of support. Intead, they were dispossessed, displaced, and then blamed for resisting it. You say they “chose not to declare a state,” but gloss over the fact that their land was partitioned without their consent, and their attempts to resist that weren’t exactly met with open arms. This idea that they’re not victims because they fought back ignores decades of military occupation, blockades, and systemic oppression. Calling it “infantilisation” to acknowledge that is just another way of denying the reality they live under.

Hard to believe how anybody can support Iran, when those terrorists were arrested in the UK. Do you think they wish us well? Israel is doing us a favour. I'm getting a bit tired, also, of reading the same emotional guilt tripping. There have been many casualties on both sides. - it's awful, but it's war.

I can't believe they actually think like that; that Iran are being treated unfairly! Some MNers are more worried about Trump having nuclear missiles, rather than a terrorist regime, who won't stop at Israel. It's just the results of brainwashing.