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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

This is a religious war not a land war.

85 replies

NotABottie · 30/05/2025 11:51

Why were Palestinians chanting ‘Allahu Akbar’ when committing the atrocities of Oct 7th and celebrating it afterwards, when the dead bodies of victims were paraded in the streets, if this is not a religious war?

Why is this being ignored and pro-Palestinians insist it’s only about land?

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · 31/05/2025 18:10

Israel has a massive problem in remaining The Jewish State in the sense of being a homeland for the majority of the diaspora who aren’t very religious.

The average secular Jew in Israel has just over 2 children (2.2 I think). Haredi Jews (the religious zealots) are averaging 6.2. In one sense this keeps Israel Jewish in the majority as the Israeli Arabs also have about 6 children per couple. On the other hand, though, it will become increasingly similar to the surrounding theocracies and no longer a liberal democracy.

This is a big problem with no obvious solution.

UsernamesAreTaken · 31/05/2025 22:39

Agree with the posters saying no historical beef between Jews and Muslims.

mids2019 · 01/06/2025 06:41

there is no need between Muslims and Jews? I think you are correct maybe in general but it is dangerous to avoid saying there is no beef between all Muluslims and Jews. It is may be an impossible challenge to separate human tribal nature from religion entirely (reformation anyone).

The big challenge going forward is to avoid Hamas aims of conflating Israel with the world wide Jewish community as being the subjects of animosity and an appeal for the world wide Muslim community to stand with them in this. I think the situation can be avoided but society and especially the media have a role in engineering the conditions for religious co existence (and it is a challenge as history more than amply shows).

Personally I would sadly say there are some neighbourhoods in the UK where being openly Jewish i.e. wearing Jewish religious regalia would be viewed as provocative and we have to think hard about how we have good relations here in the UK.

The Gaza conflict has presented real challenges to the Abrahamic religions as in theory the God is the same (now that is some discussion). When you have appeals to God from both sides in a conflict for victory from the relgious and it looks objectively like God is favouring one side (if it was God's will to have Israel have an advanced army) then you can see that brining real regions angst to the Muslim community. When a religion is based on everything being God's will then as I have said on another thread then the only response from the devout is that the Gaza conflict is a precursor to a defeat of the state of Israel (and sadly in some eyes that conflates with Judaism given the partially religious reasoning for the foundation of the modern state).

If Israel for instance was overtook by hardliners and the Am Asqa Mosque was transformed into a temple can we be quite honest and say there wouldn't be any impact on terms of Muslim /Jew relations.

Religion is such a heady mix in this that the main stream media quite rightly avoid mention of the faiths of the combatants as much as possible. It doesn't mean devious tensions don't exist but broadcasting them more widely in terms of this current conflict would be irresponsible in terms of us here in the thankfully peaceful UK.

Namechangedformyanswer · 01/06/2025 08:34

businessflop25 · 31/05/2025 17:15

I don’t know. I don’t know what would be considered acceptable by any of the parties involved.
What I do know though is that right now Hamas have nothing to gain on an individual level by surrendering. And people don’t tend to choose an option that doesn’t benefit them in some way.

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They do.have something to gain though, that more of their people dont die, or is that not Important enough to consider? That's a massive gain in my opinion. Probably not a gain for a scum terrorist though.

UsernamesAreTaken · 01/06/2025 08:36

I don't think even Hamas are conflating Israel with the worldwide Jewish community?

If Al Aqsa was overtaken by hardlinerals, I still don't equate it with the Jewish faith. I don't think the crazy settlers practice the Jewish faith other than in name and some rituals surely?

Sofiewoo · 01/06/2025 08:41

Namechangedformyanswer · 01/06/2025 08:34

They do.have something to gain though, that more of their people dont die, or is that not Important enough to consider? That's a massive gain in my opinion. Probably not a gain for a scum terrorist though.

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I don’t think a fairly short ceasefire is at all a genuine pledge to end violence.

Namechangedformyanswer · 01/06/2025 08:48

Sofiewoo · 01/06/2025 08:41

I don’t think a fairly short ceasefire is at all a genuine pledge to end violence.

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I still believe that saving peoples lives is important. A temporary ceasefire might lead to a permanent one. To just not bother means more people continue to die. Aid increases during ceasefire also help people who don't have time to wait.

Dangermoo · 26/06/2025 21:47

Namechangedformyanswer · 30/05/2025 13:47

IMO it is a religious war since no one appears to mind that a Muslim country - Jordan - actually were settlers to the land. That doesn't matter though because - you know - they aren't Jewish.

"It is an article of faith on the far-left that Israel is an imperialist implant and that Palestinians, not Jews, are the indigenous people. They love the phrase “settler-colonialism.” The accusations do apply—to Jordan. The Palestinians were not indigenous to what is now Jordan but had a presence in the area for perhaps a thousand years after their ancestors left Arabia. The Hashemites had no connection to the land until the Arab revolt, and then Abdullah was imposed on the residents by imperial Britain."

Jewish people have thousands of years linking them to Judea. However, Islam and Judaism don't get along - so a religious war but cloaked in pretence that it's about the land and some Westerners always have to feel bad about the past, even though they didn't cause it so it's a great bandwagon to jump on and makes some feel good about themselves. (Forget the latest conflict with thousands dead - this was before that and gave some Westerners the self loathing for the West they needed).

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👏 👏

Almahart · 26/06/2025 22:01

PollyPaintsFlowers · 31/05/2025 05:51

Ah yes, Palestinian Christians who are treated so well by Palestinian Muslims

'The Christian population in areas governed by the Palestinian Authority and Hamas has plummeted drastically by up to 90% in some communities, a new study suggests, attributing the decline to violence, discrimination and economic hardships that threaten the survival of Christianity in its historical heartland.
The Christian demographic in Palestinian territories has experienced a dramatic reduction over the past century. In 1922, Christians made up 11% of the population in geographical Palestine. By 2024, this number had dwindled to 1%, marking a nearly 90% decrease, according to a study conducted by the Israeli think tank Jerusalem Center for Security and Foreign Affairs.

...The report attributes the decline in Bethlehem to systemic socio-economic hardships, instability and harassment by both Muslim Palestinians and the Islam-dominated Palestinian Authority.
"The mass exodus of the Christians risks undermining the survival of Christianity in its birthplace," the researchers conclude.
One Protestant clergy member living under the control of the PA said, "Christians feel unprotected due to the failure of the PA police to intervene on their behalf in confrontations with Muslims."'

There are other reasons that the Christian Palestinian population decreased though - many would have fled to Christian countries during the Nakba.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 26/06/2025 22:15

greencartbluecart · 30/05/2025 12:17

Are you trying to excuse the Israelis hostility, murder and land grab because the Palestinians are Muslim? Can’t decide if this thread should be reported for straight racism or not

This.

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