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Conflict in the Middle East

Why don't Hamas just release all the hostages?

154 replies

springbabydays · 18/05/2025 06:43

First time wading in here but reading this morning's developments, it says Hamas have offered to release 9 hostages in exchange for a 60 day truce and some prisoners.

Why not release all hostages to end the war?

What's in it for them to prolong this? They are clearly not going to 'beat' Israel.

OP posts:
LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:18

Twiglets1 · 18/05/2025 10:44

The first phase had finished so Israel didn’t turn their back on any deal that was still in place. They just refused to move onto a second phase unless Hamas committed to putting down their arms.

Israel tried to change the agreement. Once you have made an agreement you can’t go adding on new demands as a pre-condition to do phase 2 of the agreement.

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:23

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 11:47

What percentage of the Israeli population are Arabs?
How many members of the Israeli parliament are Arabs?
What percentage of the Gazan population are Jewish (excluding those held against their will.)?
How many members of the hamas government in Gaza are Jewish?
What do you understand by the phrase ethnic cleansing.

You are ignoring the fact that Gaza is occupied territory and it was Israel that banned any Jewish person from living there. Israel went in and dismantled the illegal Jewish settlements, and Israel forcibly displaced Jewish residents from Gaza into Israel.

Israel is an occupying power that has systematically segregated Arab from Jewish across the region. That is why the ICJ has ruled that Israel is an apartheid state.

The lack of Jewish people in Gaza was directly done by Israel, not Gazans,

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:27

Standtallandproudalways · 18/05/2025 14:52

It's strange that people actually think Israel could have just wandered into Gaza a few days after October 7th and 'got the hostages back'. The gazans were still celebrating their 'victory ' then. The hostages were disbursed throughout gaza, or in tunnels and many taken by ordinary 'Innocent ' gazans. Please can you return our people, just wouldn't have worked funny enough.

I wished the war was over and tge terrorists surrendered and give up their hostages, sadly they don't really care for their own people.

I don’t think that is what they meant. By Oct 8th, Hamas was sending let’s negotiate the release of the hostages messages to Israel. People are probably saying if Israel had been willing to negotiate, the hostages could have been released long ago. We know for sure they’d all be released by now if either of the two ceasefires hadn’t been broken by Israel having other objectives they needed to meet that were more important than the hostages necessitating that they continue the war.

MaggieBsBoat · 18/05/2025 17:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 17:29

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:23

You are ignoring the fact that Gaza is occupied territory and it was Israel that banned any Jewish person from living there. Israel went in and dismantled the illegal Jewish settlements, and Israel forcibly displaced Jewish residents from Gaza into Israel.

Israel is an occupying power that has systematically segregated Arab from Jewish across the region. That is why the ICJ has ruled that Israel is an apartheid state.

The lack of Jewish people in Gaza was directly done by Israel, not Gazans,

So all Jewish people left Gaza...but are still occupying it?

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:31

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 17:29

So all Jewish people left Gaza...but are still occupying it?

Yes. As has been explained a dozen times over the past 19 months, the occupation of Gaza is a military occupation.

This occupation of all Palestinian Territories, not just Gaza, has lasted 57yrs and was ruled to be illegal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

Aikko · 18/05/2025 17:40

allamberedover · 18/05/2025 11:33

@Aikko you describe the atrocities against Jewish people .

Does that mean because unconscionable,terrible things happened that it is accepted that further terrible ,unconscionable things are perpetrated with the world looking on and providing various kinds of support to those continuing these actions .

The ethnic cleansing of Jewish people from the Arab world has far too often been overlooked. This is largely an untold story, and it is an unresolved injustice.

Huge amounts of airtime, debate and resources are focused on the Palestinians who were displaced by the 1948 conflict, and it is right to acknowledge their suffering and the importance of safeguarding their interests in a future peace settlement. But the plight of the 850,000 Jewish refugees and the scale of their suffering have never had the recognition they deserve. You may be shocked to learn that some countries’ embassies in Cairo are apparently located in homes stolen from Jewish Egyptian refugees. Concentrating only on the Palestinian refugees gives the international community a distorted view of the middle east dispute. A fair settlement needs to take into account the injustice suffered by Jewish refugees as well as the plight of displaced Palestinians.

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 17:46

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:31

Yes. As has been explained a dozen times over the past 19 months, the occupation of Gaza is a military occupation.

This occupation of all Palestinian Territories, not just Gaza, has lasted 57yrs and was ruled to be illegal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

Edited

But they are not occupying Gaza, they are maintaining border defences ( I wonder why?), as you say, this has been discussed from both viewpoints here.

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:49

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 17:46

But they are not occupying Gaza, they are maintaining border defences ( I wonder why?), as you say, this has been discussed from both viewpoints here.

Israel does occupy Gaza and has done so since the six day war in 1967,
It isn’t a question of differing viewpoints, it is a fact that Gaza is under military occupation by Israel. It is also fact that this occupation has been ruled to be an illegal occupation.

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 18:06

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:49

Israel does occupy Gaza and has done so since the six day war in 1967,
It isn’t a question of differing viewpoints, it is a fact that Gaza is under military occupation by Israel. It is also fact that this occupation has been ruled to be an illegal occupation.

Are Egypt occupying Gaza too?

They maintain border defences as well, much more fortified than the Israel side, do they not?

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:12

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 18:06

Are Egypt occupying Gaza too?

They maintain border defences as well, much more fortified than the Israel side, do they not?

No Egypt does not occupy Gaza. Egypt did from 1948 to 1967 and the six day war after which Israel has occupied Gaza and presently still occupies Gaza.

I would suggest you read this chapter
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/law-of-war/military-occupation/B4B549E58329C585683CE130CBA141F7

Your Uni should have access to it so you may understand what an occupation is and that “working on border defences” can happen as part of an occupation or entirely independent from an occupation. You will also learn the difference between domestic borders, territorial borders and international borders.

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:13

Israel withdrew from Gaza as per pp. How were they occupying when they weren't there?

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 18:16

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:13

Israel withdrew from Gaza as per pp. How were they occupying when they weren't there?

Because the Gazans weren’t free to attack Israel by land, sea and air and Israel has borders = occupation.

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:17

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:13

Israel withdrew from Gaza as per pp. How were they occupying when they weren't there?

Because a military occupation doesn’t require physical presence to be an occupation. A military occupation is control exerted by a ruling sovereign power’s military over a territory that is not part of its own sovereign territory/state. The fact that Israel controls everything and everyone that goes in or out of Gaza is only possible because Israel is the occupying power.

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:25

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:17

Because a military occupation doesn’t require physical presence to be an occupation. A military occupation is control exerted by a ruling sovereign power’s military over a territory that is not part of its own sovereign territory/state. The fact that Israel controls everything and everyone that goes in or out of Gaza is only possible because Israel is the occupying power.

So a country controlling it's borders is occupying the territory on the other side of that border?

MyNameIsX · 18/05/2025 18:33

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:25

So a country controlling it's borders is occupying the territory on the other side of that border?

Ukraine is currently occupying some Russian territory.

Your point?

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:38

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:25

So a country controlling it's borders is occupying the territory on the other side of that border?

No. Seriously, please take the time to read a few resources on what a military occupation is and isn’t.

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:39

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 18:16

Because the Gazans weren’t free to attack Israel by land, sea and air and Israel has borders = occupation.

You too, please take the time to read a few resources on what a military occupation is and isn’t.

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 18:49

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:39

You too, please take the time to read a few resources on what a military occupation is and isn’t.

Thanks but I’ll pass. There are different interpretations of International Law depending on what your bias is.

Why on earth would you think I was at University. I guess I’ll take that as a compliment.

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:51

7/10 showed the world what happens when Israeli border control breaks down, I don't think I'd advocate for them to have less border control.

Stripes56 · 18/05/2025 18:59

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:25

So a country controlling it's borders is occupying the territory on the other side of that border?

Can you name a country that spoils another’s water supply, bombs it’s airport and uses its airspace for surveillance, prevents it from having a seaport, extensively surveys it’s population without agreement? Can you name another country that actively controls how much food and other supplies goes into a country?

Legal experts have said occupy does not require military presence and you can understand why when you see how you can control population regardless of troops on the ground.

Martymcfly24 · 18/05/2025 19:00

Palestine is an Occupied Territory even their biggest cheerleaders in the US recognize that.

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 19:01

MyNameIsX · 18/05/2025 18:33

Ukraine is currently occupying some Russian territory.

Your point?

Odd post.
USSR used to covet lots of places, Ukraine is not the only former soviet bloc country happier to be independent. Not sure where you consider it's borders to be, but suspect your opinion is not relevant to them.

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 19:04

Martymcfly24 · 18/05/2025 19:00

Palestine is an Occupied Territory even their biggest cheerleaders in the US recognize that.

Palestine? Do you mean Gaza and what used to be Jordan on the west bank? Or are you referring to what is recognised as Israel?

Stripes56 · 18/05/2025 19:04

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:51

7/10 showed the world what happens when Israeli border control breaks down, I don't think I'd advocate for them to have less border control.

Fair enough - but that does not mean that Israel does not have obligations to the Palestinians given their occupation. Hence the current outrage at the fact Israel has not allowed aid into Gaza since March 2nd.

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