Can someone explain Islamophobia to me?

[BaMamma]

I don't think I have an irrational fear of Muslims, but I think I have a reasonable concern about radical Islam, does that make me Islamophobic?

The issue there is then the conflating of all people with a particular characteristic, with the individuals or groups which caused harm, and then the acting upon that conflation to cause negative consequences for others.

Extremism can be a difficult term to use in discussions because it can have quite subjective meanings, and can also be used by some people simply to mean "this group does things I don't agree with" while to other people it may refer to groups with very rigid or politicised approaches who use violence and oppression. If we agree to use it as the latter rather than the former, then we can say that some Muslims are extremists and some extremists are Muslims. We can also say the same for other faiths, other cultures, citizens of other countries, etc. If some of Group A also belong to Group B, it does not mean either that all of Group A belong in Group B, or that all of Group B belong in Group A.

Having personal experience of harm caused by extremists (as I and many others will have) does not justify any of us spreading further harm through actions driven by prejudice.

As an example, a good friend of mine was caused serious physical and psychological harm through the actions of a group which is widely recognised to use violence and tactics associated with terrorism, which were targeted against him and others he was with, because of their perceived ethnicity/faith and political affiliations. He has lasting trauma from this and a justified concern about the group responsible for those harms, but that has not generalised to all people who might share a nationality or ethnicity or faith with that group. His experiences do not mean he causes further emotional, psychological, physical or social harm to others who share a characteristic with the people who harmed him but who do not belong to that group.

In the UK, and elsewhere, there is a widespread assumption of collective responsibility and guilt by Muslims for the actions of other Muslims, and an assumption of uniformity. Islam is a globally distributed religion, with a diverse range of ways in which people practice it. People may be Muslim and follow conservative practices in daily life, while others may be Muslim and follow very liberal practices, or only really get involved for the annual festivals (and the gifts and food), or even be 'secular Muslims' (eg born into a family with a Muslim background but don't practice it, or converted for administrative purposes only but not practicing day to day). Yet all Muslims can experience anti-Muslim hatred, prejudice and discrimination, and the harm it causes. It is as unacceptable in my eyes as antisemitism, anti-Christian bigotry, racism, etc.

Well, your friend sounds like a wise, resilient person.

Incidentally, I don't think Islamophobia / Christianophobia is the same thing as racism , and I would put antisemitism under the racism banner, rather than the anti- religion banner. We cannot chose the race we are born into, and all races at birth have the same potential. We can chose our belief system tho. I would not prejudge someone based on their race, but when someone tells me they are a Christian for example- I will make assumptions on their belief system and hence also on them.

I consider them all to be forms of prejudice and bigotry, and therefore unacceptable.

If someone says they are a Christian, what assumptions do you make? Christianity is another diverse, global religion, with multiple denominations and ways in which people practise it. If the assumption you're making is that they have some form of belief in Jesus, that's very different from an assumption that they practice an extreme version of Christianity or pose a risk to you. What do you then do with those assumptions? Keep them to yourself? Ask questions in good faith to find out more? Treat the person differently and negatively as a consequence without evidence that the assumptions are accurate? Facilitate or condone other people and systems treating people differently as a result? We all make assumptions - but those assumptions shouldn't lead us to treat others with prejudice or discrimination, or lead us to contribute to systems which cause harm to others on the basis of those assumptions.

One of my DC is in pre-school. They don't know theology or politics, yet anti-Muslim prejudice and discrimination puts barriers in place and creates dangers for young children (even as young as my DC) because people look at a child who "seems Muslim" (ie, looks from a different ethnicity and/or has a name that sounds from a different ethnicity) and treat that child differently as a result. We see similar situations for children and teenagers from other minority groups too. None of it is ok.

Wouldn't you agree that some forms of prejudice are inevitable when backed up by repeated experience though?

To use our example. If I meet someone who tells me they are a Christian in England I would assume a few things. That they believe in God and an afterlife. That they believe we are all sinners. That they might possibly be more self righteous than non Christians. That they may be kinder and more civic minded than others. That they may possibly at some point wish to 'witness' to me. If I meet a Christian in the Bible Belt of the USA I will make very different assumptions. Now, none of these assumptions are conscious. I don't control them. They are there below the surface, and as I get to know that person as in individual I refine my assumptions until I have a truer picture of that person. I also know I have to be on my guard that I don't allow my prejudices to over ride my true sight of that person. But the prejudices are there, and unavoidable, the way I hope to counter them is by being aware that my thinking may slant one way or another because of my previous experience. In essence, to try to be aware of my prejudice.

Fundamentally, I do not believe we take anyone at face value really. Our previous experience colours how we see everyone and everything.

So, and it makes me nervous to say, but when we hear more frequently on the news about Islamists, radical Islam, however you want to call it, the likes of the Taliban, ISIS etc, it goes in. How could it not? These people commit awful crimes in the name of Islam. Hence, I find Islam problematic in a way that I don't find Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism.

I know its only the tiniest % of murderous nutters, of course I do. I know I have to watch my mind, to remind myself constantly that it isn't Islam, it's a bunch of homicidal furious men who've nothing whatsoever to do with the Islam my neighbors or my GP practice. But it's very human to build past experience into current assumptions. I'd argue that we all do it, much as we try not to.

Also, isn't it at least partly the fault of these murderous nutters that there is discrimination?

So, am I still Islamophobic?

runs and hides 😬

@dairydebris I think, based on your answers, that you are at risk of allowing negative assumptions too much influence on how you view Muslims, in a way that seems different from other demographics. I've also seen how passionately you care about other groups, and I'm mindful that recent events have been really traumatic. It's hard not to make assumptions when you don't feel safe yourself, and that applies to all of us. I think we do need to challenge those assumptions and ourselves, though, so that they don't develop into actions and interactions which cause harm for others. We can't necessarily control how we feel, but we can challenge our thoughts, and ensure we try to avoid acting in ways which cause harm to others.

@dairydebris if/when the site re-activates private messaging, I'd be happy to explore assumptions that way if that would be helpful. We're both going through a lot right now, I think.

Im sorry you’ve had negative experiences of Christians . I’ve had negative experiences also and I am a Christian so I’m well aware we’re a flawed bunch 🫣
There will be aspects of my character and my Christian beliefs that you don’t like but others aspects where we agree . That’s life. We all have to rub along . I would never impose my beliefs on people but I will defend them if they are mocked .

Historically Christians have often been vile to Jews . It’s a shameful part of our past ( and sadly lingers on in some places) I’m very sorry if that’s a factor informing your attitude to Christians and I can understand why you feel that way . But we are not all the same. ( Just as Jews and Muslims are not all the same)

Lapsed Christian here, very aware we are all flawed 👋
I'm not Jewish.
Let's agree we've all been hideous to each other at various times, but hope this can improve in the future.

Late to the conversation, hello from a British born Muslim who chooses to wear the face veil. I wasn't forced, it was 100% my choice. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I absolutely respect free speech but I did find some of the comments about women who veil such as why are you trying to be invisible, offensive.

A gracious thank you to the lovely posters who took the time out to explain more about Islam and who posted in solidarity with Muslims 💐

What do you dislike about the niqab? I generally have very positive interactions in my day to day life whilst wearing the niqab. The very few times I haven't was when I was verbally abused for being a visible muslim (thankfully just a handful of times)

Also - re your comments on Muslims . Thanks for your honesty. We all make assumptions about others and it’s only when we have honest conversations in good faith ( without trying to catch each other out) that we learn something.

If I’m honest I find it very uncomfortable not to see someone’s face. It’s really quite deeply entrenched in me and I feel quite a visceral emotive reaction.
Nothing to do with feminism or Islam.
Im uncomfortable with face covering in all contexts ( boys with hoodies that cover faces, balaclavas, scarves that only reveal the eyes, helmets not taken off immediately after getting off a motorcycle)
I find it either sinister and threatening or , at best, dehumanising.

I am genuinely not saying this to offend- and I totally accept your right to wear what you like.

That's ok I'm glad you are honest. I'm generally quite talkative so there has been times where I have met people and I can tell they feel abit awkward/reserved but not rude. Once we get chatting then it's fine after awhile, and I can sense then easing. If I'm In a setting with all females then I do remove it.

During covid I felt I blended in the most as everyone was walking around with face masks and sometimes I would also just wear a face mask rather than the veil. Sometimes I wear the half veil which is similar to a face mask. Depends how I'm feeling on the day tbh.

The Muslim friends I have either wear hijabs or have no head covering.
Do you mind if I ask why wearing the niqab is important to you?

In terms of islamic law, there is a difference of opinion on the veil with the majority schools of thought saying its not fard (obligatory). However, the more I looked into it, the more I felt I wanted to. The first day I wore It, I knew I had made the right choice for myself. I felt a deeper connection with God (I should add that there were other changes I made to my life at the same time)
I don't know if I will always wear the veil but i have for around twelve years now.

This is very interesting.
Do you think it was because you were more separate from the world, less distracted? I hope that doesn't sound rude.

Thank you @Niqabihere
I really appreciate the chance to ask the question.

Hmm, perhaps a little. My life has changed alot since I started wearing it. Two years after I started wearing the veil, I got married and since then had children too. I have become busier in that sense. I do try to limit activities that I think will not be a good use of my time but with social media at our fingertips, it is challenging.

In Islam it is all about intention. So you can even turn your normal mundane day to day activities into something rewarding.

For anyone wondering, my DH did see my face before we got married.

Not rude at all.
Please don't be shy to ask any questions. I'm happy to answer.

Thanks for coming on and being prepared to answer questions, it's really an AMA, but whilst you're here........

I appreciate that you feel it gives you a connection to God, my question is,
Do you feel that in any way, it pleases God that you dress how you do ?
Thanks.