Can someone explain Islamophobia to me?

[BaMamma]

I don't think I have an irrational fear of Muslims, but I think I have a reasonable concern about radical Islam, does that make me Islamophobic?

I agree, and I’m happy to give facts to substantiate my concerns.

Do I think there are many many Muslims living law abiding, peaceful lives who feel no animosity toward non-Muslims? Yes.

How many? I don’t know. This is the issue - in the same way many people don’t voice their concerns for fear of ‘Islamophobia’, I’m sure there are Muslims who have Sharia views (for want of a better word) who wouldn’t openly admit that outside of their home/community/Mosque.

I remember a caller on the radio saying we should mind our own business when it comes to Muslim countries such as Afghanistan, that it’s not up to us to interfere, and the radio host asked if he felt the same about Gaza. There was a long pause before he said ‘that’s different…’

I can happily acknowledge the West has played an appalling part in destabilising Muslim countries over the last 50 years, and that there are many many Muslim civilian deaths on the hands of the British government. I wish none of that had happened. We can’t pretend it didn’t happen. But equally that doesn’t mean I’m happy to live with an elevated terror threat, and appease people who want Sharia/blasphemy laws to show attrition. I have never harmed a fly, I wasn’t old enough to vote when the Iraq war started and my children weren’t even born then.

I suppose my issue is that while Westerners, at least publicly, are under enormous pressure not to appear Islamophobic and not to criticise Islam in any way (mainly for fear of mob rule or a public disorder), there seems to be no reverse tolerance publicly displayed by many Muslims. All it takes for a mob to form is rumours of a teacher uttering 1 word, and none of them are in any way embarrassed or ashamed to be out on the streets baying for blood. Meanwhile the poor mother whose son dropped the Koran(?) had to issue a public apology for fear of retribution, or appearing to ‘insult Islam’. This isn’t a two way street.

Eh?

But you are looking at immigration through a glass lens. It’s government policy that has got us here. It’s the invasions and interventions in other countries. But it’s also the handling of immigration. It’s the long waiting times for claims to be processed. It’s deliberately grouping immigrants in different areas together. It’s the lack of support and encouragement for integration. Grouping immigrants together with other immigrants from similar backgrounds is what allows these parallels societies to develop. Successive governments have handled it terribly which is why we are now in the situation we are in.

What encouragement of integration do you think the Muslim community would appreciate?

@RainingRoses I think it's more than that.

More a discussion of religions and their impact

I have absolutely no doubt that our successive governments are at fault. They seem intent on destroying the UK. WRT war in the Middle East, many of us protested the illegal war but unfortunately our PM was a corrupt, megalomaniac war criminal so that sadly fell on deaf ears.

I cannot even begin to imagine. You?

My parents and their fellow Muslim friends managed it. Many other Muslims I know are integrated rather than living a separate life. So of course it happens and isn’t rejected by Muslims.

I have no doubt many people do integrate

That still doesn't remove the need to discuss religion and its impact

Also some of the points eg the western women and 'false eyelashes and tits' derogatory stuff plus the higher deaths from Islamists doesn't help.

I know full well many Muslims live integrated lives as I have said above. It’s those who don’t. Like this:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-school-girl-attack-muslim-comma-b2523766.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-68659435.amp

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-64835023.amp

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/26/birmingham-anderton-park-primary-muslim-protests-lgbt-teaching-rights

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/17/islamic-protests-uk-schools-blasphemy-security-threat-warn/

Trigger warning: the link at the top is fairly disturbing.

And that has nothing whatsoever to do with me or my fellow Muslims.

Taking a life is one of the biggest wrongs in Islam. We don’t condone it but expecting Muslims to answer for Islamist’s actions is verging on Islamophobia territory.

But if there is a clear issue within a community it is up to that community to address it. I expect the Catholic Church and its members to address the sex abuse scandal. I expect white Brits to address issues of racism, which they did by turning out in huge numbers to protest the right wing riots last year. The community problems in Islam seem to be growing, and I can’t see any resistance within the community to counter this.

And a failure to condemn violence fuels Islamophobia so around we go…!

Do you expect white Britons to atone for slavery and the atrocities of hundreds of years ago? We didn’t do it so I hope not.

And the Muslim Council of Britain regularly condemns any violence by Islamists. I can’t remember which one but one of the recent terrorists in the UK, none of the mosques were willing to hold his funeral. There have been Muslim marches in the past in the UK. It does happen.

But Islamists have nothing to do with me and it’s not my responsibility to go round condoning them. Just as I don’t see ordinary Catholics responsible for denouncing paedophile priests.

Well, this is it. It’s a kind of cultural NAMALT. When white British people do anything, other white Brits are expected to apologise and take responsibility for it, even hundreds of years later. When it’s a non-white Brit, it’s considered racist or oppressive to suggest they should take responsibility for the actions of others that share their faith/ethnicity.

No I don’t. What a random question.

Mmm hmmm

Well do you apologise for the actions of the white slave owners? Or the actions of the rioters last year? Because it is arguable that fuels racism…

https://www.antislavery.org/latest/tony-blair-apologies-britains-role-slave-trade-2/

And as I said, there were huge counter protests. I saw no counter protest by Muslims at Batley Grammar School?

yes to the latter, no to the former because that would be absurd

And the murder of Stephen Lawrence was met with widespread disgust and embarrassment from white Brits. Most people age 40+ will have heard of him, he became a household name (sadly for very tragic reasons).

Ross Parker did not.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2002/dec/20/race.world

I’m confused - you think everyone should be apologising for the actions of others or they shouldn’t?

So Catholics should apologise for paedophile priests?

Those in Sweden should apologise for the recent terror attack?

Christians should apologise for the actions of fundamentalists in the USA?

Not apologise but take responsibility for acknowledging a community problem and then dealing with it.

And whenever there is an attack by Islamists, Muslims are filled with dread that the attacker will turn out to be Muslim and we are also embarrassed by what has happened and filled with sadness.

But it’s interesting there are some people who think we need to make those feelings loud and clear as otherwise it helps fuel Islamophobia.