Why do you support Palestine?

[Wildflowers99]

After the horrific kidnapping of the Bibas family and the horrific murder of the mother and her two small children, the time has come to ask British supporters of Palestine why.

A significant number of Palestinians want Sharia law. This is not a conflict of politics to them - it’s a conflict of religion. Therefore, it’s simply a case of Islam must dominate no matter what. 4 in 10 support the attacks in October 2023, which was the mass rape, torture and murder of Israelis using the most psychopathic methods imaginable - not to mention the kidnappings.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

While I am devastated by the killing of Gazan children in air strikes, and have always supported a ceasefire, I cannot support any advancing of the Palestinian state because I do not want to further a state with views such as those above.

So, please can I ask why you support Palestine as a state? I find it painful watching people blindly marching and demanding support for a state who are opposed to everything they stand for.

Yes someone mentioned upthread about the oppression of Palestinians, I was just giving an example of how they are oppressed, this is a thread about Palestine after all..

The loss of every child, Israeli or Palestinian, is an equal tragedy. All of them had an equal right to life. Being killed in an airstrike as collateral damage is beyond awful. But I find the gratuitous violence of Hamas very very hard to stomach. Raping people as they cut off their breasts. Tying people up and setting them on fire. Beating toddlers to death with their bare hands. If people don’t think these very same people wouldn’t be the ‘legitimate leaders’ if Gaza was a self governing state then they are deluded. They would simply rebrand, and win as a ‘political party’ or have a puppet government.

I recall seeing on the news coverage 2 little sweet gazan girls dressed in their best white dresses cheering in the crowd while the hostages were paraded. Their parent brought them to see it. Brought their girls to show them what...how vile their government hamas are?! That image alone made me sick.

No, arguing to deny a population the right to self determination simply because they're Muslim is islamophobic.

And of course the Jewish people are also Semitic. So what? I'm not arguing against the existence of Israel at all. I want a two state solution.

You have no evidence that an independent Palestinian state would necessarily produce the kind of government that you are imagining. But if your real problem is an objection to the expansion of a regime which carries out human rights abuses, then you clearly won't want any expansion of Israel into the occupied territories either. So what's your solution?

I abhor the right wing regime in Israel and the terrible war crimes that they have committed. I also abhor Hamas and the terrorist atrocities that they have committed. My utter contempt for both regimes does not in any way prevent me from thinking that ordinary Israelis and ordinary Palestinians all have the right to self determination.

So what is the alternative to not supporting “Palestine as a state”? Ethnic cleansing of the area and no Palestinian state?

I am sure you realise this is against international law. It’s pretty amazing if this is now the new Hasbara communiqué. This is now the second recent thread questioning why people would show compassion towards the Palestinian plight (a hint - it’s not mutually exclusive to feeling sorry for Israelis too).

Why reduce this to a zero sum game? Surely having a viable path to a 2 state solution is what will reverse the current situation that JF Kennedy predicted when he said:

“I cannot believe that Israel has any real desire to remain indefinitely a garrison state surrounded by fear and hate.”

A survey published by the Guardian acknowledged that a significant number of Palestinians want Sharia law. What on earth do you think this means if not a government which carries out blatant and widespread human rights abuses? Can you point in the direction of any country with Sharia law which does not abuse human rights on an appalling scale?

If you prize ‘self determination’ as a concept over global security and human rights, then fine. Admit it. But don’t waffle on about Islamophobia to conceal your cognitive dissonance over this.

Palestinians rampaged through Israeli homes, torturing, killing, taping and taking them hostage, they filmed it and jeered and cheered and showed the world who they are. They drove the bodies of woman round while Palestinians could spit on them, they kept hostages in their homes and tortured them.

Actively choosing to take Israelis including children to torture and mutilate and murder is beyond sickening. It’s not a war, it’s a pure hate through and through.

I stand with Israel, yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Very true

Apart from it isn’t, because I wasn’t referring to what has been going on in Gaza. I was referring to a hypothetical thought experiment.

Sorry- but isn’t that a bit naïve- if I have understood you correctly?

Support for Palestinians has been driven by why Israel is doing to in Gaza and the West Bank- its significantly raised the profile of what has been happening there.

@Yogre
what did you find amusing about this?

What I said was in effect, if you had to live under an Israeli government (as a British citizen) or a theoretical Palestinian government - which would you choose?

Frankly neither. I would emigrate from Israel but be probably killed in Gaza.

@Wildflowers99
Palestinians do not many have many options at present?
I have read that they are deeply attached to the land they do still own, which is understandable given what they have lost through generations. I would probably try to leave the Middle East in its present situation- but I can understand why Palestinians may choose not to go.

You’ve hugely misunderstood me. I was making the point that as a British citizen you would be safe if you arrived in Israel tomorrow. If you arrived in a hypothetical self governing Gaza, under Sharia law, as a Brit and a woman(?) you would be in incredible danger.

It’s incredible seeing British women cheering on the creation of a government who would
implement a regime of extreme misogyny while decrying the USA for being misogynist and right wing.

I hope Hamas is no longer a power to contend within the region. I hope the Palestinians are eventually able to get their own state and that they have able to have fair elections. That’s democracy. It has resulted in Trump winning and Netanyahu holding fort in Israel for many years.

Please point me in the direction of any Sharia state which has fair elections?

How will Hamas suddenly be not in power anymore?

@Wildflowers99
The Palestinians have held elections previously although take your point that there will only be parties who use Sharia law as their basis.

@inamarina
But isn’t that what Israel has been pounding Gaza for - to remove Hamas. Are you suggesting now - as others have warned, you can’t remove an ideology through military means?

The Palestinians need to be supported to have a viable state, and in the long run- this would hopefully lead to more and more Middle East countries- notably Saudi Arabia - normalising their relationship with Israel.

@Wildflowers99
As you are rejecting the two state solution, which solution do you propose?

Honestly what a load of complete rubbish. Israel a progressive, free, cosmopolitan country…

Oh, another disingenuous thread.
There were several thousand Palestinians in the appalling scenes yesterday out of 2.4 million Gazans. No population should be judged by their lowest denominator. Hamas cannot remain in power if there is to be peace but that doesn't mean I shouldn't support the rights to self-determination of the Gazan people who have suffered so much in a two-state solution, or that I blame them all for Hamas's appalling actions.

It's like asking the question "why do you support Israel based on the fact violent settlers have committed heinous and unpunished crimes,Israelis have been filmed cheering the bombing of Gaza / blocking humanitarian aid and social medical post show them and make sick jokes at photos of the bodies of murdered aid workers. And the population voted several times for a Prime Minister that has actively undermined peace processes (including, many would say inciting the murder of Rabin) and encouraged the rise of Hamas for their own political aims"? Presumably your answer is that most people just want peace, and to protect their loved ones in their homeland. I think the answer is the same for Palestinians. Both sides deserve better Governments that are committed to peace.

And remember - shocking though these scenes have been (and they were indeed horrifying), they are against a backdrop of Trump and Netanyahu planning for Gazan's being forcibly removed from their land. Hardly an environment to promote peace and harmony amongst an already traumatised population.

Israel is not that progressive, obviously nothing compared to Gaza but still a lot of misogyny towards women

@Sleepinggreyhounds there would be no peace and harmony anyway under Sharia law. Palestine will either stay as it is, or become a state which brutalises women and carries out inhumane punishments while enforcing a theocracy. While simultaneously continuing to fight Israel and pose an even greater global risk.

There is no ‘alternative’ of a ‘free, democratic, peaceful’ Palestine because they don’t want that.

Sometimes there is no ‘good’ option, just the lesser of two evils. I do not believe, as @MrsBennetsPoorNerves does, that the principle of self determination justifies human rights abuse and significant risk to other countries. Therefore I cannot support a self governing Palestine.

Have you ever actually been? Would you say it’s more misogynistic than the UK and if so why?