Do people fully support Palestine?

[Dawk]

I read this article and the scales fell from my eyes a bit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

I hadn’t realised that a majority of Gazans want a conservative Islamist state and the complete destruction of Israel to create an Islamic state covering the whole country (from the river to the sea I guess). They also support violence and even the sacrifice of their own lives.

I am appalled by the destruction and loss of life in Gaza, but having read this article I can’t understand why support for Palestine isn’t more caveated. Why are people waving flags and supporting Gaza so unconditionally? When you look at the polling described in the article it seems fairly clear that many/most don’t actually want peace unless it follows the complete destruction of Israel.

For me it’s a bit like supporting Iran. I would never wave the Iranian flag around because of what the country stands for. In this case I am horrified by the scale of destruction wrought by the IDF so support Palestine completely in that respect but I’d never wave the flag or chant the slogans.

If you consider yourself ‘pro-Palestine’, what do you think of the ideology described in the article?

And what do you believe now? Why do you think the Arab countries attacked and invaded Israel first now? You no longer believe they did it to oppose the existence of a Jewish state, so why did they attempt to destroy it?

We can’t set up a scheme for Palestinians. They have an average of six children. One of the highest in the world. We still haven’t finished the job of trying to house the large Afghan families from that evacuation. Just don’t have the housing stock.
Palestinian refugees arriving in the UK will be the usual single men.
The poster who said that accepting asylum claims from Palestinians equates to a recognition that Israel is the country responsible for breaching their human rights has it wrong. They would be claiming they can’t live in Palestine controlled areas. Israel isn’t responsible for Palestinians. Hamas is.

Someone mentioned 'Son of Hamas' book. I would recommend reading it as it's an insider's view of Hamas.

When was the last terrorist attack carried out by an ultra orthodox Jew; last music concert full of children blown up; last bunch of children in a dance class hacked to death; last toddler stabbed to death in pushchair; last teacher beheaded for showing a cartoon?

I know I'll get a list of every crime carried out in Gaza but radical Islam needs to be wiped out. I'm not Jewish but the Jews seem to get blamed for all the ills of the world, and I wonder what they did that's so terrible. I'm not Jewish myself.

Where are the muslim majority countries where many Jewish people live happily?

Can we really call Israel's response to October 7th as a war when there is no organized army to fight against? Technically we can not.

Describe living happily.

Can you answer my questions?

What do you believe now? Why do you think the Arab countries attacked and invaded Israel first now? You no longer believe they did it to oppose the existence of a Jewish state, so why did they attempt to destroy it?

Answer the question.

You don't think Hamas are an organized army? They have weapons, battalion, etc. Why don't you think they are an army?

What do you think Hamas expected to happen?

TBF it’s hard to tell when they hide in civilian dress.

Agree. But why do they do that? We've seen recently that they do have uniforms when handing over hostages... Perhaps OchaLove can let us know?

Why not answer using your definition? You introduced the suggestion there were many Jews living in muslim countries. I assume this is only relevant if they live there in some degree of happiness. If not, tell us about levels of prejudice or worse against them.

I believe facts. I copied this from the book "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt:

"The myth of Israel as a victim is also reflected in the conventional wisdom about the 1967 war, which claims that Egypt and Syria are principally responsible for starting it. In particular, the Arabs are said to have been preparing to attack Israel when the IDF beat them to the punch and scored a stunning victory. It is clear from the release of new documents about the war, however, that the Arabs did not intend to initiate a war against Israel in the late spring of 1967, much less try to destroy the Jewish state. Avi Shlaim, a distinguished Israeli “new historian,” writes, “There is general agreement among commentators that [Egyptian President] Nasser neither wanted nor planned to go to war with Israel.” In fact, Israel bears considerable responsibility for the outbreak of the war. Shlaim writes that “Israel’s strategy of escalation on the Syrian front was probably the single most important factor in dragging the Middle East to war in June 1967, despite the conventional wisdom on the subject that singles out Syrian aggression as the principal cause of war.” Ben-Ami goes even farther, writing that Yitzhak Rabin, the IDF chief of staff, “intentionally led Israel into a war with Syria. Rabin was determined to provoke a war with Syria … because he thought this was the only way to stop the Syrians from supporting Fatah attacks against Israel.” None of this is to deny that Egypt’s decision in May 1967 to close the Straits of Tiran was a legitimate cause of concern to Israel. But it was not a harbinger of an imminent Egyptian attack, and that point was recognized by American policy makers and many Israeli leaders. Serious diplomatic efforts were also under way to solve the crisis peacefully. Yet Israel chose to attack anyway, because its leaders ultimately preferred war to a peaceful resolution of the crisis. In particular, Israel’s military commanders wanted to inflict significant military defeats on their two main adversaries—Egypt and Syria—in order to strengthen Israeli deterrence over the long term. Some also had territorial ambitions. General Ezer Weizman, the IDF’s chief of operations, reflected this sentiment when he said on the eve of the war, “We are on the brink of a second War of Independence, with all its accomplishments.” In short, Israel was not preempting an impending attack when it struck the first blow on June 5, 1967. Instead, it was launching a preventive war—a war aimed at affecting the balance of power over time—or, as Menachem Begin put it, a “war of choice.” In his words, “We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him [Egyptian President Nasser]."

At the start of the war, Hamas Qassam Brigades had 30,000 fighters, organised by area in five brigades, consisting in total of 24 battalions and c. 140 companies. They were an army.

In fact, the British army is only twice as big at 74,296 full-time personnel (plus another 26,000) reserves.

Just think, that little group of 2 million people - which Israel has been blockading to try to stop from arming themselves - has an army half the size of the UK's. Shows their priorities. Not really innocent victims.

Israel has an army of 170,000 - 6 times bigger than the Gazans. But Israel is also having to fend off attacks from Hezbollah (20,000 fighters), the Houthis (more rocket attacks than ground assaults against Israel), Iran etc.

9/11 terrorists were not connected to Iraq. Iraq was attacked on false claims of having WMDs and 9/11 was used as an excuse. And guess who was pushing the WMD lie:

This is about the six day war I believe? What about the 1948 war when the Secretary General said, 'This war, will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongol massacres and the Crusades'

How do you fit that with your beliefs that they didn't oppose the idea of a Jewish state?

https://www.meforum.org/middle-east-quarterly/azzam-genocide-threat

I don't like your rude and patronizing style. I won't further engage with you unless I see there is a need to do so.

So what percentage of adult males are in the Qassam Brigades then?

Sorry, clumsy posting! I can do the math, just astonishing.

This.

'Technically' this is nonsense and yet another contortion to absolve Hamas of responsibility. Hamas has organised and extensive military capability in terms of personnel, facilities and weaponry.

Who wants to blame hamas, all 30,000 of them, when they can blame those pesky Jewish people instead. After all, hamas only have a uniform during hostage handback days, the rest of the time it's kept safely somewhere else.

It's all the fault of Israel attempting to build a strong country, move forward over 80 years and not sit there whinging about the past 80 years. They have taken in other Jewish people from Arab nations where Jewish numbers have declined rapidly to very tiny numbers. How dare Israel make a thriving economy, be successful and move to the future with hope.