Do people fully support Palestine?

[Dawk]

I read this article and the scales fell from my eyes a bit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

I hadn’t realised that a majority of Gazans want a conservative Islamist state and the complete destruction of Israel to create an Islamic state covering the whole country (from the river to the sea I guess). They also support violence and even the sacrifice of their own lives.

I am appalled by the destruction and loss of life in Gaza, but having read this article I can’t understand why support for Palestine isn’t more caveated. Why are people waving flags and supporting Gaza so unconditionally? When you look at the polling described in the article it seems fairly clear that many/most don’t actually want peace unless it follows the complete destruction of Israel.

For me it’s a bit like supporting Iran. I would never wave the Iranian flag around because of what the country stands for. In this case I am horrified by the scale of destruction wrought by the IDF so support Palestine completely in that respect but I’d never wave the flag or chant the slogans.

If you consider yourself ‘pro-Palestine’, what do you think of the ideology described in the article?

Who the heck is Hawra?

Do you deny there is any antisemitism in Islam?

For reference, there is a whole Wikipedia article on the subject:
Antisemitism in Islam - Wikipedia seems that historically attitudes have varied from tolerance to persecution.

TLDR but yes, this has long been incredibly obvious.

If we want to nit pick at religious books and isolate texts out of context then there's quite abit you can find in all of them.

It's more than obvious now that some people really hate Muslims/Islam and don't even try and hide it.

I think some people have a perfectly rational fear of a religion that is so closely connected to terrorist groups and, in many Islamic countries, is against women's rights.

There's also a whole Wikipedia page dedicated to anti-semitism in the New Testament. But most people wouldn't read that and make inflammatory, divisive statements.

Yes, it's fascinating Antisemitism and the New Testament - Wikipedia
Jews have issues with Catholicism in particular because of their anti-Jewish rhetoric.
Not sure what your point is really; it's not just Muslims who hate Jews? Weird flex if you ask me.

That wiki entry you cited is pretty good. Thanks. The Jews in Muslim lands were not singled out for persecution. It's important to add that The Jews were the merchants and traders and that in Dhimmi, under the Ottomans The Jews had enjoyed favoured Djimmi status; ie most honoured of dishonoured societal guests. So they certainly weren't at the bottom of the pecking order. Other minorities had it far worse.
Within Muslim lands, there was little or nothing of the endemic, viscious, loathsome antisemitism of Europe.

"It's not just Muslims who hate Jews? Weird flex if you ask me." @BaMamma

Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood week"

You're right, under the Ottomans only Muslims had any rights, and only the male ones at that. And you're saying that the Muslims under the Ottomans didn't hate the Jews quite as much as the Europeans did? O.K.

Tom Lehrer is very funny. What are you trying to prove by pointing me to that particular ditty?

Regarding the last line of "National Brotherhood week", "and everybody hates the Jews" Lyrics Genius points out that "Jewish populations had long been a popular scapegoat throughout history, and this was only 20 years after the end of the Second World War (in which Lehrer was drafted) and the Holocaust, making anti-Semitism a very familiar subject – no doubt to Lehrer in particular, himself born to a Jewish family in Manhattan."

Again, what's your point?

Weird you would say Dhimmi status was a good thing for Jews.

There are a few Hadiths contradictory to your statement. Quite a bit of exiling, taking property, stoning, accusations of crimes and that the last hour will not come the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them with stones egging them on even!

Sounds like singling out and persecution to me.

https://sunnah.com/search?q=jew+

@mouthpipette points
out that Jews were the “most honoured of dishonoured societal guests” as if that’s a good thing!

Was intended as a response to @SleekBlackCat - always mess it up posting from my phone!

I beg to differ. It's not about religion, it's exactly about real estate through colonialism. Israel's (Zionist's) aim was to seize Gaza and West Bank all along as they call these as Judea and Samaria. If Israel was set up let's say in South America none of the Muslims would have a problem with it. I believe if Israel goes back to pre-1967 borders they wouldn't have a problem either. But if your expansion plans depend on taking over their land then of course this is about land not religion. USA's foreign policy over the last 20+ years, such as invasion of Iraq or backing Israel unconditionally makes Muslims believe (rightly so) that their lives are viewed as unworthy in the west and that's the source of their radicalism - treat them in a way to radicalize them and you get radicalism. I would also argue that the Israeli illegal settlers and their Christian Zionist backers have a religious motivation and Muslims' whose lands are taken over are acting in reaction to these actions.

These are strong accusations. Any sources to back your claims? Otherwise these emotional statements sound like a way to justify Israel's actions towards majority Muslim states.

USA's foreign policy over the last 20+ years, such as invasion of Iraq or backing Israel unconditionally makes Muslims believe (rightly so) that their lives are viewed as unworthy in the west and that's the source of their radicalism - treat them in a way to radicalize them and you get radicalism

I guess you forget that they flew two planeloads of Americans civilians into skyscrapers full of other American civilians. who views whose lives as worthless?

"There are 2 million Muslim people in Israel. " they were living there before Israel was established, so it is natural isn't it? also, there are many jews living in majority muslim countries and there are cases like these as explained in the video. my point is, we need to look at every case in its own context.

Don't you think the indigenous people in South America might have had something to say about being colonized by people with no connection whatsoever to South America?

I don't know if you bothered to read the article at the top of this thread (my italics), "When asked what would be a “realistic and acceptable” ending to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, just under half of the population said some division of territory between Israel and Palestine, either along the pre-1967 borders or those suggested by the UN in 1947, while slightly more than half preferred a dissolution of Israel, with a single Palestinian state under Islamic law the most preferred solution of all. The least preferred was a single democratic state with equal rights for Arabs and Jews."
It's the Palestinians who don't want to share the land.

OMG @ochalove That video says 110,000 of the 130,000 Jews in Iraq left, not because of a hostile environment, but because of a Mossad conspiracy that involved Mossad planting bombs which killed Jews?!?

If you can't see the antisemitism in a narrative that says 'it's all the Jews fault - even their own ethnic cleansing', can you at least see how completely insane that conspiracy theory is?

there are many jews living in majority muslim countries

Which?

Look at the table in this article https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JewishexodusfromtheMuslimworld

There were 500,000 in North Africa (Morroco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya). Now there are 3000.

The Middle East - excluding Israel of course - (Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Bahrain, Sudan) have gone from 300,000 to 400. Four hundred Jews. That's 99.9% of the Jewish population - who had lived in those areas continuously for thousands of years (before Islam even existed) - ethnically cleansed.

Other Muslim countries (Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Iran, Pakistan, Turkey) have gone from 150,000 to 24,000. I suppose that's what you mean by 'many Jews', but it's still 85% of the Jewish population thrown out.

All the Jews' fault for living in a Muslim-majority country whilst being Jewish, I suppose.

Or according to that conspiracy theory 'Because Mossad'. That's pretty impressive of them: managing to get 16 Muslim countries to expel 900,000 Jews, without any anti-semitism in those countries or anyone even realising!

Interesting review of Avi Shlaim's book here, Avi Shlaim’s Fantasy Land - Tablet Magazine, pointing out some of his inconsistencies and countering his narrative that Zionists were behind the mass migration of Jews out of Arab lands.

Thank you @statsfun for your clear response to @OchaLove's nonsense.

Until the Ottoman Empire broke down, and the Jews dared to seek autonomy and their own state. One single territory for a section of the native population who had a very different identity to the Muslim majority - and wanted to live the way they chose - amongst all the many, many new Muslim states being created at the same time.

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"

The Arabs weren't an oppressed minority: they were a privileged majority who couldn't accept that the previously oppressed Jews should be allowed equality and their own state.

That's not only in this board, this is the mainstream narrative. Before reading on these events on my own from objective sources, I used to think other Arab countries attacked Israel first for no reason because they were opposing the existence of a Jewish state because that was the mainstream narrative that we would assume true without further investigation.