Do people fully support Palestine?

[Dawk]

I read this article and the scales fell from my eyes a bit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

I hadn’t realised that a majority of Gazans want a conservative Islamist state and the complete destruction of Israel to create an Islamic state covering the whole country (from the river to the sea I guess). They also support violence and even the sacrifice of their own lives.

I am appalled by the destruction and loss of life in Gaza, but having read this article I can’t understand why support for Palestine isn’t more caveated. Why are people waving flags and supporting Gaza so unconditionally? When you look at the polling described in the article it seems fairly clear that many/most don’t actually want peace unless it follows the complete destruction of Israel.

For me it’s a bit like supporting Iran. I would never wave the Iranian flag around because of what the country stands for. In this case I am horrified by the scale of destruction wrought by the IDF so support Palestine completely in that respect but I’d never wave the flag or chant the slogans.

If you consider yourself ‘pro-Palestine’, what do you think of the ideology described in the article?

Sorry, are you saying the population of Gaza aren't innocent victims because of the personnel numbers of Hamas? Please explain.

Also posters here need to decide if Hamas are terrorists or an army.

I don't think any posters need to do anything on your command actually. Conversations would be much better if you would read what people write and try to understand it in good faith as I don't think anything written here is that complicated.

Apart from the significant numbers of Jews in muslim countries. I think we are struggling a bit with that one as it is mostly a well documented story of significant persecution and decline.

That’s interesting.
Whether Israel’s actions towards Palestinians and surrounding Muslim countries over the years has been defensive or offensive (or a mixture of the two), what’s their long game?
Trump’s plans towards Gaza are not going to result in peace and any ethnic cleansing of the area (including in the West Bank) is only going to create further enemies of Israel in the surrounding countries- what ever their leaders might say.

Hopefully the surrounding Muslim countries will help regenerate and police/ support Gaza. Whatever Trumps and Netanyahu’s thoughts.

I do feel sorry for the Israelis but I hear of no concessions they would make for peace from their leaders which seems short sighted.

You can hope of course. I admire your perseverance in the face of miscomprehension. 😊

Totally bizarre remark about “army sizes” It doesn’t take a genius to figure out why it has half as many fighters in a terrorist group as Britian does personnel in its army. Whose dropped a bomb in the uk recently?

What would happen if someone bombed the fishing boats, the industry, the farmland. Who is one of the only employers in town at the moment? Not to mention the hate that is cultivated when every Gazan has lost a family member, when almost everyone’s home has been destroyed.

Bliken warned the Israeli government that they were pushing the Palestinian population into the arms of Hamas. It’s not rocket science to figure this out . The Israeli government have accepted a deal that was put on the table months ago. They since caused more devastation to the population and caused the hostages more suffering. All for what? The goal was the make Gaza unliveable I think.

Are you lecturing me here or someone else? You haven't tagged anyone.

Agree.
There were senior military and political figures from various countries saying that you could not eradicate ideology by bombs.

I can completely understand why Israel doesn’t want independent journalists to go into Gaza to see what the IDF have done in their attempt to do the impossible.

Social media has been crucial in sharing the Palestinian experience in Gaza- although some attempt to demean this as ‘Hamas propaganda’

If you follow the quotes, you'll see that @ochalove was saying that it's not a war "when there is no organized army to fight against". That's a manifestly incorrect assertion, when the Gazan army is half the size of the UK's.

The size of the army does, however, also raise a question about the distinction people are always eager to make between 'Hamas' and 'Gazans'.

When 6% of adult males are active fighters in the Hamas militia, Hamas are the government running Gaza, and Hamas have the support of 30% of the population (they were elected 20 years ago, but if another election happened tomorrow they would be re-elected) then Hamas should certainly be considered to represent their people exactly as much as any government represents their people. Even though not all Gazans support them, and of course not all Gazans are terrorists.

Labour got 33% of the popular vote last election, and their popularity is down since then. And only 0.1% of our population are in the army. But the UK government represents the UK. Their actions affect us all. Even though many of us don't support Labour.

Of course Gazan civilians are still innocent, and we expect all armies to minimise harm to enemy civilians. But don't pretend that it isn’t a war, or that Hamas don't represent the Gazans.

Oh, and @lalaloveya - Hamas are both a government and terrorists. The two are only mutually exclusive if you are incredibly naive.

@polka83 - it's true, you can't eradicate ideology by bombs. You can't remove anti-semitism or stop people trying to destroy Israel.

But you can remove their capability.

17,000 experienced Hamas fighters killed, including several of the leaders and also the planners of October 7th. They are much weaker, even if they have replaced the numbers with an equal number of inexperienced new recruits.

That's the point.

Where did you get that figure? I wasn't aware there were accurate figures on Hamas deaths.

I don’t think it is a war mainly because of the power imbalance. Israeli authorities have all the control and the military might. They controlled the lights, they controlled the food, they have the bombs, the drones. Even if 100% of gazan’s supported Hamas the level of destruction and suffering is wrong.

Israeli citizens who support the government’s actions think that the death or the removal of the Palestinians is “worth it” in order to secure their own safety. It’s not and it won’t even lead to peace anyway. it’s understandable and even inevitable that people would feel like that which is why 3rd parties are so important in negotiations. Unfortunately for the world right now, the US are not interested in cultivating peace. Hopefully the other ME countries will be.

So Israel was “mowing the lawn” with their excessive bombardment of the poor Palestinians to result in a decrease in the capability of Hamas rather than eradication?

Why did they continue to say they wanted to remove Hamas as a reason to continue their destruction of Gaza?

Your post suggests the acceptance that Israeli actions have not promoted peace in the longer run. That suggests also that it will only take time for those against the existence of Israel to regroup.

But that may be an assumption in my part. Do you think @statsfun that Israeli actions in Gaza have promoted chance of a longer term peaceful resolution?

💯

Indeed.

The pager attacks on hezbollah weakened them sufficiently that they were unable to help their mates in other conflicts.

There is a power imbalance in many wars. You could hardly think Russia and Ukraine are equally powerful. Still a war though.

I wonder if this statistic is the same that refers to everyone man killed in Gaza was a member of Hamas? Such accuracy for dumb bombs

He (Mosab Hassan Yousef) doesn't sound normal and looks like a walking, talking mind control experiment subject. His hate speech against muslims should be enough to discredit him but I guess people applauding him care only when hate speech classifies as antisemitism.

There was some talk of that at the beginning of course, as it was also an invasion. The extent of the power imbalance is much greater in this instance. Ukraine - a sovereign state, supported by many other countries does have tanks and helicopters and is in a war to defend itself. Although Russia’s actions are also wrong.

The Russian’s would disagree as they call it a special military operation.

ACLED collects information on the dates, actors, locations, fatalities, and types of all reported political violence and protest events around the world.

They make a number of suggestions on how many hamas fighters remain.

"While Israel’s operations in the Gaza Strip have significantly reduced Hamas’ military manpower, the exact number of fighters it has lost remains uncertain. Israel claims to have killed around 17,000 gunmen, dismantling most of Hamas’ 24 battalions, along with killing dozens of commanders and key leaders. However, more detailed IDF reports on the killing of militants containing specifics on timeframes, locations, or operations, recorded by ACLED, account for approximately 8,500 fatalities. This figure also includes militants from other armed groups and possibly other non-combatant Hamas members. Based on pre-war estimates, Hamas’ military wing, the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, had between 25,000 and 30,000 fighters.

It was quite an army to take on. When they take off their uniforms and fight a querilla warfare in the streets, similar to in Afghanistan, a very difficult task. Prior to the ceasefire they were fighting differently to at the commencement of the conflict.

“possibly other non-combatant Hamas members”

Who are these now? Unarmed people?

The fact remains that Hamas seem to have as many fighters as they did before the war and with a population who are both traumatised and cannot sustain themselves they will have a fertile recruitment environment. It’s almost like the Israeli government’s top goal was not to do the impossible of eradicating Hamas at all. They had another goal.

Was there any terrorist groups under Ottoman era? To my knowledge, first introduction of terrorism in the area started with Irgun which carried out terrorist attacks against British because they were regarded as illegal occupiers - see the parallels with Hamas? Irgun also carried out terrorist attacks against Palestinians. After Israel was established, Irgun was absorbed into IDF.

So it is bold and unfair to claim that Muslims are inherently terrorists when terrorism was introduced in the area by Zionists.

Under Ottomans, all groups had their rights based on their religions. Muslims were subjected to Islamic law, Christians were subjected to Christianity laws and Jews were subject to Judaism laws. You are not correct when you claim only Muslims had any rights. Many non-muslims were very prominent in many areas of social life, trade etc.

In response to your question. I don't compile the report. The report was very long, you could read it, if you want greater clarity.

The report doesn't suggest that Hamas have as many fighters as at the beginning of the conflict or before(as you claim). You have not read correctly.