Are Hamas as thick as they are evil?!

[Newbutoldfather]

After seeing masked, uniformed well-fed Hamas soldiers humiliating emaciated hostages, does anyone even feel a shred of sympathy for them?

Can’t they even understand how bad this looks and what the consequences will be both for themselves and, more importantly, for the rest of the Palestinians?

It would be hard for them to be as thick as they are evil, because they are extremely evil, but I think they might have achieved it…

@ParsnipPuree ,

It’s not quite as simple as that.

Hamas are an Iranian creation or, if not their creation, their creature.

Hamas, pre election, helped with a lot of civic functions. They ran the equivalent of MP’s surgeries and distributed food and money to those that needed them, funded by Iran. They weren’t voted in because they were antisemites. And, they got voted in shortly after Arafat rejected a really good solution.

The problem is after election they made it impossible for Israel to negotiate with them and refused further elections.

Most Palestinians have no memory of any of that as they are so young. It is a nation dominated by adolescents!

But how we move from where we are to a stable and peaceful two state solution, I don’t know. It is obvious, however, that Hamas should have no part in it.

I wouldn’t say you are delusional, but the term “shaheed” in Arabic and as used in the Middle East doesn’t have the same meaning as “martyr” in English in the west. It doesn’t have the connotations of a sacrifice of another or yourself for faith in a god or cause as that is a connotation set up by the Catholic Church in the west.

A martyr simply refers to an innocent person who once killed goes straight to heaven. The term is used for victims dying of- disease, natural disaster, drowning/burns, murder/war/unjust imprisonment, crash/accident while travelling, dying due to pregnancy or childbirth complications.

Reading back, that obviously sounds like cloud cuckoo land. Throughout history, though, wars have pretty much always ended with negotiated settlement. Realistically, what’s the alternative? Years of fighting and total destruction, hundreds of thousands of dead? People fighting people who, going way back, share origins?

God, I hate “strong men”.

I didn't know this. Thankyou.

Yes, I too have been called a self loathing Jew for not supporting the Jerusalem Program (of settlement by any means including ethnic cleansing) which is a requirement to be accepted into the Zionist Congress.

I completely agree with you.

This is an important point. When you look at polls of people in Israel and in Gaza there is a lot of antipathy and racism towards each other expressed. It is fair to say that these populations have been radicalised to dehumanise each other and violence of the worst kinds has become normalised there.

Hope so.

I should answer the “are they as thick as they are evil” question.

I personally think that decades of violence and intermittent warfare has resulted in many young men who are evil and completely oblivious to just how evil their actions are. The videos of Hamas during the hostage handovers is a lot of proud posturing and intimidation of the hostages and crowds around them. For all we know, the crowd is forced to be there and told to cheer at gunpoint. Children ordered to dress up and sing songs. Women forced to dress up and act happy. It’s a very old tactic to use force and coercion on a captive population- which everyone in Gaza is- to put on a show of strength to the enemy. We all agree the handovers were massively staged and replete with propaganda, well the staging includes crowd management and behaviour. You’d be naive to think the regular “Gazans” herded there to perform love for Hamas are expressing what they really think and feel.

@LoremIpsumCici ,

I am not sure about that. The crowd looked pretty enthused to me. It is hard to make someone act happy if they aren’t feeling it.

And Hamas’s ability to co-ordinate that kind of stuff was severely compromised (if not destroyed) by the war.

I believe they have been by-and-large radicalised, and it will take the removal of Hamas and a meaningful program to win over hearts and minds and deradicalise them.

They need to be offered carrots as well as sticks, but it will still take a very long time…and no Hamas (or at least senior Hamas, some of the young guys can probably be turned around).

The Red Cross would like to make the handovers private

At least with the public exposure of Hamas it's clear what people are up against

Even if these men / terrorists with face coverings and weapons are hidden from the world stage they still are present and active.

So what happens with them? Do they continue on their mission or something else

The images from the Palestinian hostages are evil. This is just one man. There are thousands still being held without charge including children.

www.instagram.com/p/DF2j65SJ4Wc/?img_index=1&igsh=MWtsdWx0M2liZzVvdw==

It is hard to make someone act happy if they aren’t feeling it.

It really isn’t when the people aren’t in a democracy with no right to protest, no right to migrate, no right to free speech, and a dictator’s soldiers can take you out back and shoot you, after shooting your kids in front of you. There are so many bodies in Gaza, and armed gangs running around as well as Hamas that survival often depends on acting skills.

“I believe they have been by-and-large radicalised, and it will take the removal of Hamas and a meaningful program to win over hearts and minds and deradicalise them.….They need to be offered carrots as well as sticks”

Yes I wholeheartedly agree with this. When a certain % have been radicalised, and the rest are pretending out of fear to survive, no one knows who they can trust, everyone wonders if it’s only them that hasn’t been radicalised.

Carrots - as in a real positive future that includes freedom from terrorist dictatorship and a path to equal rights as Israeli citizens would do wonders.

That post gives no evidence for that information. Looks like a propaganda account

How would you get the Hamas men in the images to behave in a way that is not lethal to anyone?

Even if they are not part of a new government they are still active, what would they do?

There is a lot of evidence of mistreatment of Palestinian detainees and prisoners:

Human Rights Watch
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/israel-and-palestine#israelidetention

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/08/26/israel-palestinian-healthcare-workers-tortured

UN OHCHR
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/07/un-report-palestinian-detainees-held-arbitrarily-and-secretly-subjected

BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2yylgze4ro

Amnesty Intl (some predates the current war)
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/04/amnesty-international-sounds-alarm-international-law-flagrant-rule-breaking-governments-corporate-actors/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/07/israel-must-end-mass-incommunicado-detention-and-torture-of-palestinians-from-gaza/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/04/israel-opt-death-in-custody-of-walid-daqqah-is-cruel-reminder-of-israels-disregard-for-palestinians-right-to-life/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/05/israel-opt-death-of-khader-adnan-highlights-israels-cruel-treatment-of-palestinian-prisoners/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2025/02/israel-opt-release-of-palestinian-aid-worker-after-nearly-nine-years-of-unjust-imprisonment-ends-appalling-miscarriage-of-justice/

I was wondering when propaganda would be mentioned, so predictable

I’d take advice from the people that got the IRA, ANC, PLO and other terrorists to lay down their arms, disband and allow elections or a caretaker entity to run Gaza. Either in person or via any sort of advice they’d written and left behind. I think it would involve negotiations of some sort. Hamas can be negotiated with - the proof of that is that two ceasefires have happened. We can’t kill them all or defeat them by lethal force- that’s not a moral can’t but a physically impossible can’t.

Why would you not want to use verfiable sources?

Is this particular case in any of those links?

@LoremIpsumCici I appreciate the answer and perhaps it can be done. However I understand why those who fear their actions would be wary.

They look committed and very much not like people who are ready to step down. Their manner, coverings and weapons.

I would want a decent barrier between them and those targeted. Not sure if that's possible

Why would you say that's not a verifiable source?The previous poster has provided plenty of links there, are those also propaganda?

Those links were nothing to do with that intagram account with its blatantly antisemitic content. Show me where those links verify the case posted? Why is it ok to post random social media propaganda?

Reposting once’s you need more than one source. What’s the rebuttal for this