A ceasefire deal has been agreed

[gloriagloria]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c3rwqpj70ert

I really hope this is the beginning of peace and prosperity for both sides.

The mental acrobatics some folk will go through to brand all Israelis as bloodthirsty genocidal monsters is astounding.

Personally if terrorists invaded my country and carried out the level of sexual depravity that was seen at the music festival I can’t guarantee I wouldn’t want revenge. That said I don’t think any govt should take the level of military action that Israel’s had, just saying I do understand why Israeli people felt a deep sense of hatred.

You don't believe that elections, in Russia, are fair and free, do you? If you do, well, I have no words.

Of course Russian Elections are unfair and undemocratic and you are also being obtuse.
In a now deleted post a PP wants to blame all Israelis for their government's actions. I asked if she blamed all Russians for the actions of their government. Someone else asked if all Gazans are to blame for the actions of Hamas.

I don't really see where you're going, no.

I don't think every person in Gaza is responsible for Hamas' actions, no reasonable person would.
Equally every person in Israel is not responsible for what the Israeli government does. Which is what the (now) deleted post was stating.

How can a 2 year old on either side be held accountable for actions of adults? It doesn't matter when the last elections were held, it's irrational.

Sorry, forgot to quote, this was a reply to Auvergne63.

I also understand the shock and trauma after Oct 7th. I think there are all sorts of political views in Israel, and one can't hold the people responsible for government actions. However, you can't make comparisons with something like that happening here. We don't have a Gaza strip. It's an unusual and difficult situation.

I was talking about adults who are legible to vote. Of course, any one under the voting age cannot be held accountable. That would be ludicrous.
I thought that it was pretty obvious.

Okay, well you didn't seem to understand my response to the deleted post so I thought it wasn't obvious to you and you needed me to explain.

I'm glad we both agree the comment in the deleted post was wrong to make.

Personally if terrorists invaded my country and carried out the level of sexual depravity that was seen at the music festival I can’t guarantee I wouldn’t want revenge

Absolutely anyone would, that's why we have laws governing what is and isn't acceptable.

I think in the uk we believe that as a country we have a responsibility to behave well. We draw up laws both inside our country and with the international community as guides to “how we behave” we are all responsible (accountable) for what we do on a personal, local, national and international level. Of course the power of the players involved is not equal and as a pp highlighted their are obviously people who don’t vote, pay taxes, or participate in the creation and sustainable of individual states (like children or others who lack capacity). I don’t think this is a niche or uncommon understanding of how healthy societies work. I’d go as far as to say it is commonplace.

Someone upthread suggested that my issue was with Jewish Israelis and I’d like to correct that. It would not be possible for me to hold the views you are ascribing to me.

As do Israel given that they’re a party to the Geneva convention.

I saw Biden's recent interview where (and I'm paraphrasing here) he told Netanyahu after October 7th that you can't go around carpet bombing Gaza. Netanyahu's reply was along the lines of why not? you all did in WW2 to which Biden reminded him of why the UN and other organisations were formed to prevent such atrocities happening again. I can't believe the US continued to supply such destructive weapons to Israel after Netanyahu explicitly stated his intentions.

Just listening to a podcast about the deal and in response to a question earlier on it seems reconstruction won’t take place until stage 3. To be honest I struggle to see them getting to phase 2.

For those interested it’s the Battlelines podcast (same people that make Ukraine the Latest which is fabulous). The most recent episode features interviews with a gazan woman in Yhan Yunis and one of the hostage’s relatives. Safe to say he’s an excellent example of what we were talking about upthread about Israelis that don’t support Netanyahu. Safe to say he doesn’t believe phase 2 or 3 will ever happen.

I am seeing similar rhetoric from both sides that the ceasefire won't hold past phase one but personally, I think it's too early to say.

Is it true that Ben Gvir has left government? Or is he still just threatening to?

Still threatening to at this stage, says his resignation letter is imminent.

I think the rhetoric on the Israeli side is definitely steering towards a resumption of the war. There is a clause in the agreement however that the cessation of hostilities is supposed to last until an agreement on phase 2 can be made (so in theory even if talks grind to a halt).

RTE news : Netanyahu: Israel retains 'right to resume war' if needed

http://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2025/0118/1491542-israeli-gaza-ceasefire/

Right to resume war if 2nd stage proves pointless

Yeah I have just seen a summary of Netanyahu's speech saying so today. However, do you think he is supposedly taking this hardline to appease those in his government who oppose the deal? He is a shitty person but a good politician and knows how to play the game.

By good I mean crafty. He has been in this field for many years so knows a trick or two.

I honestly think it depends on how the political wind blows. If he thinks going back to war will save his political skin then that’s what he’ll do. And I think in the meantime Trump will arm him to the teeth.

Trump has issued a 'threat' if you can call it that to Netanyahu, that he better do whatever he needs to, to make sure the ceasefire holds.

The WSJ reported today from Trump's aide that when he said there will be all hell to pay, that wasn't only directed at Hamas, But the Israeli government too.

Qatar's prime minister also criticised the negotiating parties for the time it took to agree a deal, saying that it was the same framework agreed upon in December 2023.
"Which is basically 13-months of a waste of negotiating the details that has no meaning and is not worth a single life that we lost in Gaza or a single life of the hostages lost because of the bombing."

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/qatars-pm-says-israel-hamas-ceasefire-deal-is-last-chance-for-gaza-13290723

——
how many lives could have been saved if this same agreement had been agreed 13 months ago

And Hamas can't even fulfill their first obligation, to provide a list. A bloody list.

Ben-Gvir has resigned. Hope the door doesn’t hit him on the way out!