The future for Muslims in the UK is "bleak and dystopian"

[Scirocco]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/nov/17/muslims-face-bleak-and-dystopian-climate-in-uk-says-head-of-thinktank

According to a report by the Runnymede Trust. The crisis in Palestine and Lebanon is considered to be a major contributing factor.

@Yerushalmi

What are you basing your assumptions on?

Reports on anti-Muslim hatred and discrimination show that this is widespread and that Muslims, especially Muslim women, are at significantly increased risk of religiously motivated violence and abuse.

You say: "This would hold true even if a very visibly Muslim person found themselves walking through Stamford Hill or Golders Green, for example. They wouldn’t feel afraid or intimidated in any way. And why should they? No Jew would attack them or try to make them feel unsafe. They wouldn’t receive a single negative comment or even an intimidating look." This is simply not true. There are Muslims, myself included, who have experienced religiously motivated verbal and physical abuse from people who have stated that they are Jewish or Israeli or acting to show their 'support' for Israel. Non-violent examples of unpleasant attempts at intimidating behaviour would include the person who asked for my telephone number for "the next round" of device explosions, or the person who informed me that he was praying for my plane to crash (and then started to do so).

It is possible to think that both antisemitism and anti-Muslim hate are real concerns. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

My father in law was Muslim from Pakistan. My husband became Christian to marry me over 35 years ago as he was a none practicing Muslim but I was a committed Christian. One of the last conversations I had with my father in law before he died was how he hated the way the country was now. That the recent Muslim immigrants were not integrating, too many hot headed young males, in his considered opinion. He even objected to adhan, the call to prayer from his local mosque, because, as he said, everyone has a phone that lets them know when to pray so it was unnecessary, as was outside praying, there is always space inside somewhere, he felt both practices were to show dominance. Many people on this thread would no doubt call him islamaphobic, judging by the comments, which if he was still here he would no doubt make him chuckle, but a more peaceful loving example of his faith would be hard to find.

Absolutely ridiculous to say it doesn’t happen. Equally ridiculous to say that white people (especially girls/women) aren’t abused by Muslim men. I can also give you several examples of people I know who have been called whores, been grabbed and fondled or worse for the ‘crime’ of walking through the wrong neighborhood not covered. That does mean I believe that there is a dystopian future for a white person because a small section of Muslim men in this country have abused me and my friends.

What bias? It’s factual - what other religion is at the centre of most war & conflicts across multiple countries at the moment? This is the issue …… an unwillingness to look at the facts. Islam has a problem - Shia and Sunni are set against each other and the leaders of these factions are starting conflicts across the globe in the name of this difference. And it’s become a world problem because of the sheer number of countries involved in these countries across the globe.

And I did not say the world’s only problem!

*that does NOT MEAN
13.02 post

It obviously is biased and is an opinion not fact. Many countries feel that climate change brought on by western greed is currently the world’s greatest problem. No doubt many Eastern Europeans see Russia as the biggest problem. Middle Easterners may see American Imperialism as the world’s biggest problem. We are all biased to some degree but we should acknowledge this and try and avoid stereotyping people/ populations.

Exactly

I did not say it was the only problem or even the biggest problem. You’ve made that bit up. Perhaps examine your own bias? I said it was the world’s problem and then I clarified further to make clear it’s not the world’s only problem and the reason for that assertion was the fact that it affected multiple countries and is the cause of the vast majority of refugees.

Last time I checked Russia and Israel aren't Muslim countries yet they're both invading other sovereign countries. The US and UK are always getting involved too - shall we say then that Christian countries are at the centre of most wars and conflicts? Why are you separating some countries actions from their religion and not others?

The pp was not wrong . This is complicated by the fact that there is a shortage of hostel type housing so asylum seekers do end up in local authority accommodation, social housing and with private landlords. ( see link )
https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/housing_options/asylum_seekers_accommodation_options/accommodation_for_asylum_seekers#accommodation-arranged-by-ukvi

This might mean that there is a shortage of social housing for those in the locality who need it .

None of this means that’s it’s ok to victimise Muslims or scapegoat any other group on the basis of religion.

Of course it's not racist to be concerned about housing for your kids etc. It is racist to blame all those things on immigrants. Rather than government failure.
Divide and rule, it's what they've always done. Rupert Murdoch and co print lies and try to cause division in communities. The multiple home-owning billionaires are making life difficult for the rest of us; but they're quite happy for you to blame immigrants, as it takes the focus off them.

Yes - I think some groups are quite happy to see immigrants get the blame as it suits their own agenda.
This is a government failure.

Apologies. I just can't take your posts seriously. You have a warped view of this country, its history and the people in it...of all ethnicities. Throughout this thread you give the impression that you live in a parallel universe. Maybe that's what Walthamstow has now become...?

I don't live in Walthamstow anymore. I live in a far less multicultural part of the country now. The thing that's interesting to me is that when I lived in Walthamstow, I encountered far less racism and Islamophobia. Where I live now, I've encountered much more of it. I had a conversation with someone in a nearby village telling me how worried he is about Sharia law - I don't think a single Muslim lives anywhere near him! It's just nonsense he's read in The Telegraph or similar.
I'm not sure why you're not taking my posts seriously? I've just spoken of my very real experiences, having lived in various parts of the country.

You dismiss everyone's lived experiences as nonsense, made up by the "right wing press", if it doesnt chime with your own.

You call strangers on this thread that you have never met "Islamaphobic" racist, bigoted, colonialist, zionist....

You obsess about Gaza and immigration when the OP was trying to talk about normal Muslims in the Uk many just trying to live their lives quietly and not being automatically stereotyped as being fanatical about Gaza or in anyway responsible for illegal immigration.

It's either the mind of a lower 6th politics Alevel student or a lefty from the 1970s who needs a modern day cause. I can't work it out. It's not good for community relations though.!

I haven't called any individual on this thread the things you say. I try to follow the talk guidelines and not name call etc.
But, clearly there has been a lot of bigotry and racism on this thread. Some of it very blatant. Can you honestly deny that?

It's not for you or I to judge people. Just cool your boots a bit. I'm sure you have valid points to make in there somewhere. They are just very difficult to make out, being as they are obscured by hyperbole and conspiracy theories.

it is this type of deliberate obfuscation that means no one can ever get any where in a sensible discussion of actual
issues?
Firstly I said most conflicts not all but the vast majority. Secondly I am unaware that Russia and Ukraine are at war over the Christian faith? That’s appears to be something only you know.
Britain and the US are continually getting involved where they should not as I pointed out in a previous post but they are not fighting for the Christian faith. Nor have they invaded a peaceful Muslim country - They are there at the invitation of one or other of the factions (usually Shia vs Sunni) but often for their own perceived gain. Which is wrong and I hope we stop. But that doesn’t stop the conflicts over the different factions of Islam ….. as our non involvement in Syria has shown

Also @Nordione1 I don't recognise your description of my posts. I think you've probably misunderstood some of the things I've said. I absolutely have talked about normal British Muslims.
Anyway, feel free to think whatever you want to think 🤷‍♀️

Conspiracy theories?! What? Suggesting the super rich and right-wing politicians scapegoat minorities isn't a conspiracy theory. It's historical and present fact. Did you see Nigel Farage's 'breaking point' poster on the side of the bus during the Brexit campaign?
I haven't attacked anyone on this thread. But, it's not judgemental to call out racism. There have been many racist posts on this thread. To me that's undeniable. If you genuinely can't see that, I'm not sure there's anything more I can say.

But can you recognise that the average white British person is exactly the same. I’m a working mum, definitely a coffee addict and I guarantee you a worse cook than you. I recognise that people of your faith experience abuse but equally people of your faith can and are abusive too. And lumping us all together and declaring that we are causing a dystopian future for you is simply provocative and actually not true.
It is my job to accept and confront the white abusive racists in this country - I make no apologies for them and I will call it out every time unless it is extremely unsafe for me to do so. How about you? Is there any recognition that the Muslim faith - the way the political and faith leaders and people around the world are currently acting is less than ideal and that you all have your part to play in this?

I agree with you. It's absolutely true that the right wing media, social media agitators and some politicians are scapegoating minorities. It's glaringly obvious.

One issue is we get no closer to discussion on how create a better system and pressures mount

Yes that just explains what I have already said. The state has a responsibility to provide accommodation to asylum seekers and for the most part it is temporary emergency accommodation in hotels, b&bs etc. They are not part of the social housing waiting list, they are not eligible for that.

This is complicated by the fact that there is a shortage of hostel type housing so asylum seekers do end up in local authority accommodation, social housing and with private landlords
But the type of accommodation and tenancies offered to people on the social housing list would not be offered to asylum seekers so they aren't going to the top of that list as the poster I was querying with suggested. There is a huge shortage in accommodation and the numbers seeking asylum is not sustainable long-term but they are part of a different system to the social housing waiting list system, they are similar to the homeless emergency accommodation system.

The Shelter website ( link provided) says
“UKVI does not directly provide the support itself, but has the responsibility for ensuring that eligible destitute asylum applicants are provided for.
UKVI enters into contracts with accommodation providers including local authorities, registered social landlords (housing associations) and private landlords.”
This suggests they are housed in local authority housing.. and there is a great shortage of housing atm .. so there are tensions that have nothing at all to do with racism and everything to do with limited resources as the pp originally said.