Israeli minister calling for a state that includes many Middle Eastern countries

[Nads0622]

I've just seen a video of the Israeli finance minister Bezalel Smotrich stating he wants a Jewish state, Greater Israel which includes Jordan, Saudi Arabia , Iraq , Syria and Lebanon. He’s basically calling for mass genocide !!!
why is no one talking about this .

My point precisely. The whole thing is ridiculous.

Thank you, that guide is useful @Limesodaagain

One thing I disagree with in the guide is that other states are never called Nazi.

-Nazism is not used, for the most part, to criticise or attack other states -

in that Putin calls the Ukrainians Nazis and tells the Russian people they are fighting Nazis.

Given the rise of actual facism, Nationalism and white supremacy and sometimes espousing Nazi-like ideals, it is likely there will be more states in the future called “Nazi” as a description.

But obviously the meaning behind the guide is right, and it is especially wrong to invert the meaning in relation to Jews, who were the very victims.

”that Putin calls the Ukrainians Nazis and tells the Russian people they are fighting Nazis.”
True

Valid Criticism without the reference to Holocaust should be possible. It’s lazy as well as antisemitic .

Just so . And its not that long since we were being told Netanyahu was a nutbag who wouldn't win power - or would be restrained by wiser counsels if he did. Back in those halcyon days when Israelis were advising the various parties here in Ireland how to replicate their wondrous peace process.

Given the history and continued celebration of Stepan Bandera, combined with Ukraine’s active involvement in and endorsement of the Holocaust, Putin, in this case, isn’t exaggerating. Ukraine garners much deserved sympathy. And I sincerely wish for peace in the region. But Ukraine, like everywhere else has a dodgy historical shadow dogging and undermining its progress. As for Putin and Russia, that’s for another thread.

Whatever the history you have correctly described, Putin telling the Russian people they are presently fighting Nazis is just his propaganda.

Putin is exaggerating. Dont be ridiculous. Im not going into it as it would derail the thread but despite far right elements in ukraine, Putins claims about denazification are revolting propaganda. Zelensky is Jewish FFS.

As a Jew, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are deeply problematic.

Ben-Gvir has convictions for incitement to racism and supporting a terror group, yet he is still a minster in Netanyahu’s government.

Whilst it is important to remember that they are allies of convenience and don’t get to form Israeli policy, they can certainly influence it by being able to bring down the government any time they want to. And when they say the religious far right, they are serious about the religious bit. For these two, the Old Testament is a manual of how they and Israel should behave, including the chosen people bit, and how philistines should be treated.

And we are seeing the government failing to punish settler violence and not treating POWs according to the Geneva convention, so evidence of their influence in policy and actions.

So, while none of the above should stop us being behind Israel defending herself from terrorist attacks and creating a safe environment for Israelis to live, we should make our military and financial support conditional on Israel embracing the democratic and egalitarian values that the West espouses. And the ‘we’ goes both for the U.S and world Jewry.

Yes - thank you

Absolutely appalling! Have some respect and do not speak about the hostages. You have no does the hell they went through. Shame on you. They were threatened by those evil people to say that you absolute disgraceful person.

Nobody was comparing modern Israel to Hitler. The thread, very very clearly, was to not ignore the very real threat of ultra nationalists within the Israeli government to the wider ME region, in the same way the west did with Nazi Germany and more recently with Putin. It is a critique of western imperialism as much as anything else.

I think the issue is is that it's gone beyond self defence.

22 dead in a strike in Beirut on an apartment building. How does that defend against October 7? How does that equate to self defence?

Yes the strikes on Israel are also wrong but two wrongs don't make a right and mindlessly bombing civilians won't fix it.

The comment I asked to be deleted, and that was deleted, directly compared Israel to Hitler. You may not have seen it, but it did.

@itwasnevermine ,

‘I think the issue is is that it's gone beyond self defence.

22 dead in a strike in Beirut on an apartment building. How does that defend against October 7? How does that equate to self defence?’

Do you really not know that Hezbollah ‘supported’ their Hamas ‘allies’ by lobbing missiles into northern Israel, leading to pretty much a full evacuation, and that Hezbollah uses Beirut as one of its bases? I mean, Nasrallah and many other high value Hezbollah targets were killed beneath a Beirut building.

So it really isn’t hard to see why this could be legitimate self defence.

Clearly bonkers.

But they haven't hit Hezbollah targets this time.

I have been quite supportive, even praising of Israel at times, when they have carried out strikes on Hezbollah that have led to members being killed/incapacitated.

However I do not see how bombing an apartment building full of civilians equates to self defence. I'm sorry but I just don't.

@itwasnevermine ,

‘But they haven't hit Hezbollah targets this time.’

How do you know this?

Israel didn’t deliberately target a building full of civilians with a precision munition. Firstly, I do trust them to target military targets. But, even if I didn’t, they just don’t have precision guided armaments to waste on random Beirut buildings.

Whether they hit their (military) targets, I don’t know, but I am sure that is what they were trying to do.

(Not all Hezbollah targets are high value. They include communication buildings, arms ‘factories’ etc).

22 civilians dead.

If these were 22 Israeli civilians would you be defending it?

I'm not totally anti-Israel and I am certainly not pro-Hamas or Hezbollah. What I am against is innocent groups of largely women and children being killed. Indiscriminate bombing on the off chance of killing Hezbollah targets isn't legitimate self defence.

@itwasnevermine ,

‘If these were 22 Israeli civilians would you be defending it?’

Defending is a strange word, but if the Iranians, say (as opposed to a terrorist group) hit an Israeli civilian building which was either being used by the IDF or close to a legitimate IDF target, I would say it was a legitimate act of war.

After the Nastallah killing, it has been 100% proven that Hezbollah hide amongst civilians and use civilians as shields.

The intent is what matters, not the outcome.

From CNN

• The reported target: A senior Hezbollah official was the target of the strikes, according to a source in the militant group, and Israeli media reports. Wafiq Safa, the leader of Hezbollah’s liaison unit, survived the assassination attempt, the Hezbollah source told CNN.

Do you really think this is okay?

If Russia had hit a Ukrainian apartment block would you be saying it was okay? Loss of civilian life on all sides of the war is not okay.

@itwasnevermine ,

Then you have to ban all wars, or maybe have soldiers with swords come together in fields as in medieval times.

Wars aren’t ‘OK’, as you put it, but they seem to be an inevitable outcome of an aggressive primate species with opposable thumbs for tool making.

And once you accept that, there will always always be civilian deaths too.

Personally I can't support any killing of civilians in a deliberate strike on an apartment block.

It's always women and children suffering. Always.

Exactly as I pointed out upthread he's the Minister of Finance, a Minister in the Ministry of Defense and the Chairman of the Religious Zionist Party.

If he is an extremist that no one supports why is he still holding a ministry?