Israeli minister calling for a state that includes many Middle Eastern countries

[Nads0622]

I've just seen a video of the Israeli finance minister Bezalel Smotrich stating he wants a Jewish state, Greater Israel which includes Jordan, Saudi Arabia , Iraq , Syria and Lebanon. He’s basically calling for mass genocide !!!
why is no one talking about this .

Holocaust inversion is a generally accepted form of anti semetism.

This isn't just my opinion, look it up.

I actually believe you're most probably not a racist, but you said a racist thing, so generally best not to say racist things unless you want people to assume you're a racist.

I get ALL of that, but in context the statement was absolutely not antisemitic. And you know it. This thread is clearly about ultra-nationalist expansionist goals.

It's absolutely scary that some feel we shouldn't be able to mention the most abhorrent ultra-nationalist expansionist movement the world has known in the context of ultra-nationalist expansion.

Irrefutable evidence of hostages not being treated well. And the ultimate not being 'treated well' was being murdered in many cases.

Imagine if someone called for an Iranian superstate. Just imagine the uproar

Hiya. There are absolutely ways to discuss this without making reference to Hitler tho. Everyone else on this thread has managed it. One poster made a good comment I thought- that this comment shows genocidal intent. Fair. It does. We can discuss it. It's not always anti semetic to criticise Israel, and Israeli policy. It's necessary.

However, it really is seen as generally anti semetic to draw comparisons between contemporary Israel and Nazi policy. It's a kind of Holocaust Inversion. It can be seen as trivialising the Holocaust. There's a whole body of literature out there around it. It's not just me chucking the term about, I promise.

This particular slur keeps popping up on here and it's making me think that people can't even bother to do a 2m Google about it and read up even for 5m. It doesn't strengthen their arguments.

Like I said, the poster probably didn't realize it's problematic to use that trope. But it is. Points can be made without resorting to it.

Some released hostages were vilified by their own for not reporting their particular guards, in their case, as being bad enough.

It is horrendous to be a hostage no matter what. What happened Oct 7 was a hideous outrage and massacre beyond belief.

But were some hostages treated better than others? Yes. Which would you want if it had been you?

(I mean “you” in the general sense)

I can't tell you how fed up I am of posters mentioning the holocaust. I genuinely find it so upsetting and so unnecessary.

Smotrich is an extremist.

Nobody in Israel wants this except for a tiny fringe.

But don't let that get in the way of your persistent anti-Israel jabbering.

If an Iranian extremist said this would you say the same thing?

This particular policy may only be wanted by a tiny fringe, but Smotrich and Ben-Givr are controlling Netanyahu. Extremists settlers in the West Bank stealing Palestinian land or harrassing or attacking Palestinians are being state supported. The IDF is now 40% from the more extreme, fundamentalist mindset. This is not a tiny fringe minority. So much trouble is radiating from them.

He’s a minister in the Israeli government. If someone from labour or the previous government tories said something I’d not agree with I’d criticise it. It’s called freedom of speech. If Israel government doesn’t want to be criticised then maybe they should consider who they keep in the government.

Smotrich is an extremist.
Nobody in Israel wants this except for a tiny fringe.

So stop letting him represent your views on the world stage!! He is the finance minister not some insignificant backbencher

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Bezalel (Yoel) Smotrich, is an Israeli politician who serves as the Minister of Finance, a Minister in the Ministry of Defense and the Chairman of the Religious Zionist Party.

I agree it is wrong, but just wanted to say you do see Jewish people saying that Oct 7 was the “worst thing to happen to Jews since the Holocaust”.

Obviously this is just a factual statement but is read as meaning to say it was the holocaust all over again ( and some perhaps did say that).

Then if Oct 7 becomes the comparator with the many thousands of deaths of women and children in Gaza and even more wounded and orphaned the analogy may be made even though it is wrong.

No it is not generally meant or understood to mean that october 7th was the holocaust all over again. Noone who understands the holocaust, who lost family in tbe holocaust or who cares about Holocaust education would seriously say such a thing. Please stop these insinuations. This conversation is absolutely hideous.

I was not insinuating anything but pointing out a fact about a train of thought leading to a false, misleading, wrong analogy when people are talking about Gaza.

No it is not generally meant or understood to mean that october 7th was the holocaust all over again. Noone who understands the holocaust, who lost family in tbe holocaust or who cares about Holocaust education would seriously say such a thing.

This was the Times of Israel last year. So this is the sort of thing I meant.

‘The Holocaust, all over again’: The Supernova festival massacre, in survivors’ words
https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-holocaust-all-over-again-the-supernova-festival-massacre-in-survivors-words/

(By the way, I do not blame the victims of this massacre themselves for feeling this way.)

Who mentioned the Holocaust?

There are always people on these boards mentioning Hitler, the Nazis, the holocaust.

I'm making the general point that I'm fed up of it.

It got deleted, because it was anti semetic, as keeps getting pointed out. The other comments criticizing Israel without comparing them to Hitler get to stay as they are not anti semetic, merely critical.

He might be an extremist but he's also a member of government which is worrying.

From https://antisemitism.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/IHRA-Explainer-Web-Pages.pdf
A Guide to the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance Working Definition of Antisemitism
Clause 10: Israel - Nazi Comparisons
“Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.”
The use of Nazism to describe Israel is antisemitic because it is a deliberate invocation of the Jewish nature of the Holocaust to attack its targets, in order to provoke and upset.61 Nazism is not used, for the most part, to criticise or attack other states, nor often is those states racial or religious character.
During the 2014 summer conflict between Israel
and Gaza, imagery of Swastikas and comparisons between Israel and the Nazis become commonplace during protests on the streets of London.62 This
form of antisemitism often uses swastikas, pictures of Hitler and other imagery or concepts from Nazi Germany to portray Israel.
Examples which highlight this form of antisemitism:
• In 2014, leaflets were sent to several synagogues in Birmingham, Liverpool and London stating “Israeli – Nazis have turned Gaza into a modern Auschwitz and are now annihilating its civilians without remorse.”63
• In 2016, graffiti was daubed in Dunham stating, “ZioNazis” with a Star of David.64
• In 2017, a tweet was sent stating: “I boycott Israeli goods Because Israel is a terrorist State Run by a bunch of Neo-Nazi.”

The key sentence
“it is a deliberate invocation of the Jewish nature of the Holocaust to attack its targets, in order to provoke and upset.61 Nazism is not used, for the most part, to criticise or attack other states, nor often is those states racial or religious character.”

Eretz Israel or Greater Israel. The idea has been around for decades in more bonkers Zionist circles. An empire from the Nile to the Euphrates. I suppose any place mentioned in the bible must belong to Israel?

Many , if not most , Israelis are atheist.
But they still think God promised them eternal rule in the ' Holy Land'.

An atheist does not believe god did anything. Dont be ridiculous.

@itwasnevermine

I"f an Iranian extremist said this would you say the same thing?"

If some Iranian extremist who was largely an irrelevant Iranian politician said this then yes I would probably dismiss it as unimportant rhetoric by an unimportant nutjob trying desperately to generate publicity for himself.

However if it came from say the Iranian President then I certainly wouldn't dismiss it and would take it very seriously indeed.

www.iranintl.com/en/202311194318

@1dayatatime he's not just some random, though. He's the Finance Minister.