This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 5)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

I used to start these threads with the fervent hope that each will be the last. I don't anymore.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/05/israel-destroying-palestinians-war-hope

It's true that most were returned via a deal. That is not the issue with this story. Hamas didn't HAVE TO slaughter the hostages when soldiers were close by. They chose to become they are evil murdering scum and the blame for the deaths of those 6 hostages is with them and them alone.

What is your issue with the story? The story is about a probe by the IDF into the actions of the IDF?

An investigation by the Israeli military has found that the actions of their forces on the ground likely influenced the killing of six hostages in Gaza in August by Hamas.
It also "concluded that this was a painful and tragic event, with the extremely difficult outcome of the brutal murder of six hostages by Hamas".

So the IDF hasn't said that they are completely to blame and Hamas have no responsibility, they said that their actions 'likely influenced the killings'. Do you not think that the IDF should analyse what happened so they can try and find the best way to get the hostages home safely in future?

It says a lot when the IDF investigates itself and then concludes that they themselves contributed to the death of these six hostages.

Although, they aren’t blaming themselves, the quotes you posted clearly puts the responsibility on Hamas:
”"ground activities in the area, although gradual and cautious, had a circumstantial influence on the terrorists' decision to murder the six hostages".

and
”brutal murder of six hostages by Hamas"

I think the military are formally alerting their civilian leadership that military force isn’t getting the hostages released alive, but killed. It’s a significant fracture within Israeli government that we have only seen widen since Netanhyu fired his Defence Secretary, Gantz.

The more civilian leadership doesn’t listen to the military, the higher the risk of a military coup…

The investigation will have been looking at what happened, what contributed to it, how to reduce the risk of it happening again. It's been carried out by the Israeli military.

The responsibility for taking a life ultimately rests with the person choosing to take that life, and with the government/leadership choosing to give the order to do so. Nothing that I've seen in the report contradicts that. The report is considering the circumstances in which innocent lives were lost, to consider what if anything could be changed to prevent this happening again. It's good practice to hold such reviews when tragedies like this occur.

It's not about blaming Israel. It's about trying to honour the memories of innocent people by ensuring others don't die in the same circumstances, if possible.

I don’t think it’s helpful to play the blame game, that’s only going to lead to everyone pointing at everyone else, and then nobody will understand what actually happened. It sounds as though they have examined some of what was within their control, and concluded what could be done better, which is more constructive than looking for the high ground.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/who-chief-says-he-was-at-yemen-airport-when-it-was-hit-by-israeli-air-strikes-which-killed-two-13280031

Targeting an international airport that could have taken out UN and WHO staff including the WHO CEO! They were in the region to check on the health and humanitarian situation in Yemen, which almost cost them their lives. Unbelievable

Sadly, very believable. What's harder to believe will be any claims that those people's lives weren't intentionally put in harm's way, given the hostility towards both the UN and WHO.

Yep.

Hopefully the UN and WHO take this as a sign they need to keep pushing forward.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/26/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-gaza-bombing.html
Israel Loosened Its Rules to Bomb Hamas Fighters, Killing Many More Civilians

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62jpzmreyqo

There are no winners in war.

Indeed but some can decide not to take part. Others don’t have the luxury of choosing

I imagine there are people in the idf who don't wish to take part. Things are rarely as simplistic as made out on MN. War is often forced on people from.both sides

Indeed there are. I've known people who were so horrified by their experience in mandatory service that they vowed never to go back (even years ago), some people are refusing to go to fight and facing punishment and even prison for it.

I recall a young soldier saying that the IDF isn't solely killing Palestinians - the actions people are taking are destroying who they are, too. There's truth in that - it can be very hard to rebuild yourself after being in a combat zone, and I expect it's much harder to do if you know you've done things in that situation which go against who you have always seen yourself as being. War destroys so much, and changes everything it touches.

Not recent but I can recommend Balcony Over Jerusalem by John Lyons 2017.

To add: the John Lyons book is both revealing and disturbing. It's written from his own point of view, western, neither Israeli, nor Palestinian, nor Jewish or Muslim. It was written well before 7/10 and the subsequent events.

He describes everyday vignettes of Israeli prejudice, the settlement and colonisation of the occupied Palestinian territories and defacto apartheid. The insidious nature of the western Jewish lobbies is frightening. The long held ambition for a Greater Israel and the piecemeal but relentless colonisation of Judah and Sumaria and the accompanying ethnic cleansing and genocide is crystal clear.

An absolute must for anyone seeking a little more than the current horrific headlines.

Haaretz

Kaid Farhan al-Qadi, freed last August from Hamas captivity in a tunnel near Rafah, told his rescuers that a few weeks prior he had heard a woman speaking Hebrew in the tunnel, Israel's Channel 12 News reported, noting that Israeli forces continued to operate in the area despite the possibility that there were more hostages present nearby.

• According to the report, al-Qadi repeated his testimony to Shin Bet investigators. Two days after his rescue, six hostages – Hersh Goldberg-Polin, Almog Sarusi, Alex Lobanov, Carmel Gat, Eden Yerushalmi and Ori Danino – were murdered a few hundred meters away from where he was rescued. The IDF did not comment on the report.

According to al-Qadi's testimony, he heard a woman say "good morning" in Hebrew, but his eyes were covered, and he couldn't tell who the woman was or who she was speaking to. However, according to the report, since Muslim women are not being held in the tunnels, there must have been other Israeli hostages being held in the Tel al-Sultan area.

The IDF did not comment on the matter.

Haaretz

Israel deployed a target identification system in Gaza that was based on artificial intelligence, which may have significantly increased civilian casualties, according to a Washington Post investigation.

• The investigation suggests that during the war "the IDF turned to an elaborate artificial intelligence tool called Habsora – or 'the Gospel' – which could quickly generate hundreds of targets." The technology, along with other AI systems, may have led "Israel's military [to significantly expand] the number of acceptable civilian casualties from historic norms," Israeli sources said.

• The IDF said the investigation's claims were false, adding that the systems minimize civilian casualties.

It is well know that the Idf test new weapons in Gaza and have done so every time "they mow the grass".
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-india-ai-weapon-arbel-gaza-war

I wouldn’t put anything past them 😡

Thank you @Auvergne63

I remember 972+ magazine had an article about the Lavender AI system. https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
So with Arbel and Habsora that’s three at least.

Imagine following the orders of Artificial Mindless Zombies.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd0ep0j83p7o

It is just a desperate situation now. People can't survive this much longer. Those poor babies they had no chance and what an horrific way for them to die 😥

No they can't. Thousands already haven't. All part of the disgusting plan.