Protesters drape Westfield Stratford in colossal Palestinian flag

[Oystercavity]

Not acceptable in a family environment. There is a time and a place.

Well done to the shopping centre in dealing with this so smoothly:

"A spokesperson for the London shopping centre said: “Westfield London and Westfield Stratford City are busy family-centric destinations and to ensure a safe and inclusive environment for all our visitors, we do not facilitate protests within our centres."

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/protesters-drape-westfield-stratford-in-colossal-palestinian-flag-lw9ma1jo

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/07/10/israel-hamas-gaza-ceasefire-agreement-within-reach/

There are several online sources discussing the proposal for a non-Hamas administration in Gaza. This links to an opinion piece in the Washington Post which cites 'officials' - consistent with the widespread hesitation people have of putting their name on the record.

I read it here
@1dayatatime

https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-israel-hamas-to-cede-control-of-gaza-to-pa-linked-force-in-deals-2nd-phase/

So Britain supplies 15% of the parts for various things. Not the actual weapon, or helicopter etc just 15% of the parts!

Right so banning the parts will end the conflict. I mean seriously.

Who supplies the weapons, the guns to Hanas? Who cares?

You're completely missing the point.

'Not acceptable in a family environment'

"Ew a Palestinian flag reminding us privileged folk that babies, toddlers and children are being slaughtered. Look away children'

Mumsnet are full of the best folk 🤣

https://x.com/abierkhatib/status/1811750490339717458?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

Here is another powerful speaker.

So the UK supplies just 15% of parts - not actual weapons. Not missing the point at all.

The UK government is providing Netanyahu et el with political cover for the daily, no hourly, atrocities taking place.

Plus the more countries who call out the Israeli government, the harder it becomes for them to continue their genocide. That’s why Netanyahu wants the far right to gain power in European countries, despite the very real risk this poses to Jewish people living in Europe (as the far right really do have abhorrent anti semetic views), as many in the far right are supportive of the genocide taking place in Gaza.

Also it’s plane parts, so without them the idf wouldn’t be able to fly their planes and drop the bombs (donated by America) on defenceless people living in tents.

But if we were to take 15% in the way you are interpreting it - 15% of 186,000 (the lancets estimate) is 27,900 people who wouldn’t have been murdered. I wonder how many children wouldn’t have been either orphaned or decapitated.

"But if we were to take 15% in the way you are interpreting it - 15% of 186,000 (the lancets estimate) is 27,900 people who wouldn’t have been murdered. I wonder how many children wouldn’t have been either orphaned or decapitated."

I'm not interpreting it as 15% of deaths at all. What on earth are you on about. Don't tell me what I'm interpreting. You speak for you and I'll speak for myself.

I could do as you do and completely go at a tangent, if hamas weren't scumbags then children on both sides wouldn't be orphaned at all. Shame they took 2 years to plan something that would unleash a conflict where their innocent people would suffer so much. Would it have stopped them, probably not since they don't care. Do they regret it, probably not. Would they do it again probably, if given the chance. Maybe why Israel has gone for them wherever they hide.

The UK is providing parts for weapons that today have killed around 100 people in a refugee camp that was designated a safe area. Some of us think they shouldn't be supporting this carnage. It doesn't matter if they're weapons or parts of weapons it's all the same effort.

You may not mean to but your post makes it sound like you are justifying the attacking of hospitals, refugee camps etc where premature babies and the most vulnerable have been killed and children playing football blown to pieces.

Maybe why Israel has gone for them wherever they hide.
^^This is the part of your post that make it sound like you agree with the awful attacks on healthcare facilities etc given Israel use Hamas 'hiding' there as their rationale for letting the most vulnerable suffer dreadfully Multiple mass graves have been discovered at hospitals, with bodies showing signs of mutilation and torture which would amount to a war crime. Personally I think we should tread carefully when it comes to saying anything that could imply that war crimes are ever acceptable.

I'm open to hear what you were thinking of with when you said that though.

My points originally started with people blaming the UK for sending weapons fir use in the war. I responded that we send 15% of parts (ie not actual weapons).

The responder then diverted off at a tangent assuming that meant 15% of deaths. Completely odd and assumed I said that. I didn't. They didn't address the 15% point at all.

Then off on another tangent.

Anyway I believe that this conflict as in Israel going into Gaza to kill/destroy/break Hamas wouldn't be happening if Hamas didn't carry out 7th October. I do support a country's right to respond to terrorists, to stop its own destruction.

Thst does not mean that I justify the innocent victims being killed. No innocent children should die. I have said many many times on various threads, the conflict is awful. A ceasefire is required with hostage release and 2 states with hamas not in charge so they cannot plan and carry out another 7th October.

Unless the UK government can prove that the 15% of what they send will not be used to kill / maim/destroy anyone or anything in Gaza, then they are complicit in the suffering of the innocents. No ifs, no buts.

Total rubbish.

There’s really no reason to be so rude to people who are patiently explaining things to you.

So tell us then, if you are the expert, how do you measure the 15% of parts supplied as parts to fighter jets which drop bombs on defenceless civilians?

How did you intend that it should be calculated?

It's not rude to laugh at a stupid argument. The UK doesn't supply weapons as various people alude to. It supplies parts. 15% of parts. The UK is not responsible for 15% of deaths. Ridiculous argument 🙄

'Patiently explaining' as in giving your point of view which I disagree with. I know many of these threads are people nodding along in agreement but come on, you don't expect everyone to agree with you. Do you?

There's a very tiny % of MN that actually bother to even read these threads let alone bother to comment. I can see why.

Hamas 2nd in command in Gaza was removed today. Shame the cowardly Sinwar doesn't come out from hiding. Maybe then this might end. Hopefully someone will do the right thing and give up his location.

Please provide counter argument to my claim. Saying an argument is rubbish without actually stating why shows you lack valid arguments.
It also makes you wrong.

aoav.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Who-is-arming-Israel_.pdf

I’d rather believe the experts
https://caat.org.uk/news/uk-complicit-in-war-crimes-un-experts-demand-an-arms-embargo-and-confirm-all-arms-transfers-to-israel-likely-violate-international-law/

You still haven’t answered the question…

I gave my view you gave yours. That's the end really. I don't think 15% of parts equates to 15% of deaths, I also don't think the UK is responsible for what's happening in Gaza or the deaths. You disagree. So what. The UK is a country where we are entitled to different opinions. I cannot be bothered to reply to your endless assertions the UK is responsible, it isn't. I don't owe you anymore than what I said. The responsibility for deaths are Hamas and the IDF.

Neither are relevant to the thread title anyway. As usual though, all threads lead to Israel bad, or sometimes UK and US bad too. Whatever 🙄

True. the responsibility of the deaths are on hamas and idf

uk, might be complicit in war crimes only.

It's not rude to laugh at a stupid argument
Unless, as I have ask you politely, to explained to me directly why it is a stupid argument then laughing is incredibly rude.
No, parts aren't weapons but a weapon is made of many parts. Even if you only provide 15% of the parts to make that weapon, you are still responsible if that weapon kills. I don't understand why this is difficult to understand.
As usual though, all threads lead to Israel bad, or sometimes UK and US bad too. Whatever 🙄
No, Israel isn't bad but the Israeli government's actions are evil and the USA/UK government are facilitating these.

There wouldn’t be a flag colossal enough to represent my horror at what the Israeli authorities are still being allowed to get away with. We hear of another case today of them corralling Gazans in a ‘safe’ area and obliterating them. Yeah - we mustn’t have flags….

Agreed