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Conflict in the Middle East

This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 4)

987 replies

Eyesopenwideawake · 09/07/2024 18:08

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/07/09/israel-gaza-hamas-hospitals/

I see the old thread is sadly almost full. I wonder how many of these I will start? 😢

OP posts:
Thread gallery
133
ScrollingLeaves · 16/07/2024 19:37

EasterIssland · 16/07/2024 18:28

This is one of the worst crimes I have ever heard of, even among the most despicable armies ever known.

What evil, what stupidity. The shame the IDF soldiers are bringing to their country by this sort barbarity is an indelible stain.

“The dog attacked him, biting his chest and then his hand. Muhammed didn’t speak, only muttering ‘No, no, no.’ The dog bit his arm and the blood was shed. I wanted to get to him but I couldn’t. No-one could get to him, and he was patting the dog’s head saying, ‘enough my dear enough.’ In the end, he relaxed his hand, and the dog started tearing at him while he was bleeding.”

The dog should never have been let loose, but once it was it could have been stopped immediately. They are very well trained. Instead they allowed and encouraged this sustained attack. Then to think they separated this poor man from his family, and left him alone to die.

HRTQueen · 16/07/2024 22:40

I have just seen this reported in the news

day after day we hear of a school, a refuge and so on accidentally bombed and being investigated

and now this utterly despicable report of a young man who was extremely vulnerable is attacked by a dog and left to die

I’m speechless how long are governments going to allow Isreal to continue (and I include ours) calling for a ceasefire just isn’t enough it’s empty words

Parkingt111 · 16/07/2024 23:06

EasterIssland · 16/07/2024 18:28

I just saw this too on BBC. It's sick, absolutely sick.
I can't imagine what sort of twisted warped mind someone can have to do such a thing.

Scirocco · 16/07/2024 23:12

To set an attack dog on a disabled man posing no threat is barbaric. To leave him to die, afraid and in pain, is evil.

We don't defeat terrorism by becoming monsters.

People have choices, and the soldiers responsible could have chosen not to do this, but they didn't. If anyone is reading this who is supportive of the IDF's actions, I would be interested in how this could be considered justified...

EasterIssland · 17/07/2024 00:13

Anybody who's gonna be left in Gaza; all y'all gonna die, each and everyone of you" This is Major Mikito Shoshan of the Israeli occupation army. He posted this video on his Facebook account threatening Palestinians in Gaza with death if they don't leave the Strip.

https://x.com/QudsNen/status/1813255124736962709

ScrollingLeaves · 17/07/2024 00:32

EasterIssland · 17/07/2024 00:13

Anybody who's gonna be left in Gaza; all y'all gonna die, each and everyone of you" This is Major Mikito Shoshan of the Israeli occupation army. He posted this video on his Facebook account threatening Palestinians in Gaza with death if they don't leave the Strip.

https://x.com/QudsNen/status/1813255124736962709

One of God’s chosen people? I wonder.

What a monstrous man.

PeasfullPerson · 17/07/2024 11:57

I’m running out of things to say, it’s one horror after another. When will it end.

ScrollingLeaves · 17/07/2024 12:26

PeasfullPerson · 17/07/2024 11:57

I’m running out of things to say, it’s one horror after another. When will it end.

Yes, I know that feeling exactly.

ScrollingLeaves · 17/07/2024 12:48

Haaretz July 7
About the IDF during the chaos and panic of the Oct 7 terrorist invasion, and the ‘Hannibal directive’

IDF Ordered Hannibal Directive on October 7 to Prevent Hamas Taking Soldiers Captive
'There was crazy hysteria, and decisions started being made without verified information': Documents and testimonies obtained by Haaretz reveal the Hannibal operational order, which directs the use of force to prevent soldiers being taken into captivity, was employed at three army facilities infiltrated by Hamas, potentially endangering civilians as well

Gaza Division operations and airstrikes in the first hours of October 7 were based on limited information. The first long moments after the Hamas attack was launched were chaotic. Reports were coming in, with their significance not always clear. When their meaning was understood, it was realized that something horrific had taken place.

Communication networks could not keep up with the flow of information, as was the case for soldiers sending these reports. However, the message conveyed at 11:22 A.M. across the Gaza Division network was understood by everyone. "Not a single vehicle can return to Gaza" was the order.

At this point, the IDF was not aware of the extent of kidnapping along the Gaza border, but it did know that many people were involved. Thus, it was entirely clear what that message meant, and what the fate of some of the kidnapped people would be.

This was not the first order given by the division with the intent of foiling kidnapping even at the expense of the lives of the kidnapped, a procedure known in the army as the <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/WuAgT/www.haaretz.com/2014-08-03/ty-article/.premium/the-hannibal-directive/0000017f-e4e2-df2c-a1ff-fef386660000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">"Hannibal procedure."

Documents obtained by Haaretz, as well as testimonies of soldiers, mid-level and senior IDF officers, reveal a host of orders and procedures laid down by the Gaza Division, Southern Command and the IDF General Staff up to the afternoon hours of that day, showing how widespread this procedure was, from the first hours following the attack and at various points along the border.

Haaretz does not know whether or how many civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures, but the cumulative data indicates that many of the kidnapped people were at risk, exposed to Israeli gunfire, even if they were not the target.

At 6:43 A.M., at which time rocket barrages were launched at Israel and thousands of Hamas operatives were attacking army strongholds and the division's observation and communications capabilities, the division's commander <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/djMWJ/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-09/ty-article/.premium/i-failed-idfs-gaza-division-commander-announces-resignation/0000018f-fe81-d660-af9f-ffbff3e50001" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Brig. Gen. Avi Rosenfeld declared that "the Philistines have invaded."

This is the procedure when an enemy invades Israeli territory, upon which a division commander can assume extraordinary authority, including the employment of heavy fire inside Israeli territory, in order to block an enemy raid.

A very senior IDF source confirmed to Haaretz that the Hannibal procedure was employed on <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/djMWJ/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-18/ty-article-static/.premium/what-happened-on-oct-7/0000018e-c1b7-dc93-adce-eff753020000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">October 7, adding that this was not used by the divisional commander. Who did give the order? This, said the source, will perhaps be established by post-war investigations.

In any case, says a defense official who is familiar with the October 7 operations at the Gaza Division, in the morning hours "no one knew what was going on outside." He says that Rosenfeld was in the war room, not emerging, "while outside a world war was raging."

At 6:43 A.M., at which time rocket barrages were launched at Israel and thousands of Hamas operatives were attacking army strongholds and the division's observation and communications capabilities, the division's commander <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/djMWJ/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-09/ty-article/.premium/i-failed-idfs-gaza-division-commander-announces-resignation/0000018f-fe81-d660-af9f-ffbff3e50001" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Brig. Gen. Avi Rosenfeld declared that "the Philistines have invaded."

This is the procedure when an enemy invades Israeli territory, upon which a division commander can assume extraordinary authority, including the employment of heavy fire inside Israeli territory, in order to block an enemy raid.

A very senior IDF source confirmed to Haaretz that the Hannibal procedure was employed on <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/djMWJ/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-18/ty-article-static/.premium/what-happened-on-oct-7/0000018e-c1b7-dc93-adce-eff753020000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">October 7, adding that this was not used by the divisional commander. Who did give the order? This, said the source, will perhaps be established by post-war investigations.

In any case, says a defense official who is familiar with the October 7 operations at the Gaza Division, in the morning hours "no one knew what was going on outside." He says that Rosenfeld was in the war room, not emerging, "while outside a world war was raging."

The decision to conduct attacks inside outposts, says a senior defense official, will haunt senior commanders all their lives. "Anyone making such a decision knew that our combatants in the area could be hit as well."

But such attacks took place, it turns out, not only inside outposts or bases. At 10:32 A.M., a new order was issued, according to which all battalions in the area were ordered to fire mortars in the direction of the Gaza Strip. Internal discussions in the army noted that this order, attributed to Brig. Gen. Rosenfeld, was heavily criticized, since at that time, the IDF did not have a complete picture of all the forces in the area, including soldiers and civilians. Some of these were in open areas or in woods along the border, trying to hide from the terrorists.

At that point, the army did not know the number of people who had been kidnapped. "We thought they numbered dozens at that stage," a military source told Haaretz. Firing mortars at the Gaza Strip would endanger them as well. Furthermore, another order given at 11:22 A.M., according to which no vehicle would be allowed to return to Gaza, took this a step further.

"Everyone knew by then that such vehicles could be carrying kidnapped civilians or soldiers," a source in Southern Command told Haaretz. "There was no case in which a vehicle carrying kidnapped people was knowingly attacked, but you couldn't really know if there were any such people in a vehicle. I can't say there was a clear instruction, but everyone knew what it meant to not let any vehicles return to Gaza."

A new development occurred at 2:00 P.M. All the forces were instructed not to exit border communities toward the west, in the direction of the border, with an emphasis on not chasing terrorists. At that point, the border area was under intense fire, directed at anyone in that area, making it a danger zone.

"The instruction," says the source in Southern Command, "was meant to turn the area around the border fence into a killing zone, closing it off toward the west."

At 6:40 P.M., military intelligence believed that many terrorists were intending to flee together back to the Gaza Strip, in an organized manner. This was near <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/djMWJ/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-18/ty-article-magazine/.premium/their-close-knit-kibbutz-was-destroyed-by-hamas-now-they-seek-separate-ways-forward/0000018e-ed4a-d240-a19f-fd4b9f410000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kibbutz Be'eri, <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/djMWJ/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-10/ty-article/.premium/so-the-world-knows-what-happened-the-scene-of-slaughter-at-kibbutz-kfar-azza/0000018b-1aa1-df31-a99f-7fe3eae50000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kfar Azza and Kissufim. Following this, the army launched artillery raids at the border fence area, very close to some of these communities. Shortly afterwards, shells were fired at the Erez border crossing. The IDF says it is not aware of any civilians being hurt in these bombardments.

Unrestricted fire

One case in which it is known that civilians were hit, a case that received wide coverage, took place in the house of Pessi Cohen at Kibbutz Be'eri. 14 hostages were held in the house as the<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/djMWJ/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-06/ty-article/.premium/idf-probing-death-of-12-hostages-in-beeri-house-shelled-on-orders-of-senior-officer/0000018d-7b6c-d008-a9cd-fbfdb0040000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"> IDF attacked it, with 13 of them killed. In the coming weeks, the IDF is expected to publish the results of its investigation of the incident, which will answer the question of whether <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/djMWJ/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-31/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/who-is-the-idf-general-who-ordered-tank-fire-on-a-kibbutz-home-with-13-hostages-inside/0000018f-ca16-da41-a9cf-db3eaa080000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Brig. Gen. Barak Hiram, the commander of Division 99 who was in charge of operations in Be'eri on October 7, was employing the Hannibal procedure. Did he order the tank to move ahead even at the cost of civilian casualties, as he stated in an interview he gave later to the New York Times?

Over all the months that have passed, the IDF has refused to say whether this procedure was employed against civilians who had been taken hostage. It now seems that even if the answer is positive, the question may have been only a partial one. The actions of Hiram may have simply been congruent with the way the IDF operated that day.

As far as Haaretz knows, even at 9:33 P.M. this was still the situation on the ground. At that time, there was a further order from Southern Command: close off all the border area with tanks. In fact, all forces in the area received permission to open fire at anyone approaching the border area, without any restrictions.

The IDF spokesman responded by saying that "the army has been fighting for six months at high intensity on several fronts, focused on attaining the war's objectives. In tandem, the IDF has begun conducting internal investigations of what transpired on October 7 and the preceding period. The aim of these investigations is to learn and to draw lessons which could be used in continuing the battle. When these investigations are concluded, the results will be presented to the public with transparency."

AhNowTed · 17/07/2024 20:08

PeasfullPerson · 17/07/2024 11:57

I’m running out of things to say, it’s one horror after another. When will it end.

Sorry, don't want to ignore later posts, but this is where I am.

Beside myself. Don't know what to say anymore.

And yet you there are posters still claiming whataboutery.

Other governments are worse. Why are we focusing on this.

It's obscene.

ScrollingLeaves · 18/07/2024 11:29

NB Although that July 7 article from Haaretz I posted yesterday said further investigations into Oct 7 would reveal more,
those investigations it seems are not going to happen.

Haaretz yesterday evening:

ISRAEL: The Knesset rejected on Wednesday a bill to establish a state commission of inquiry into the events of October 7. Some 53 coalition MKs opposed the proposal submitted separately by Orit Farkash (National Unity) and Meir Cohen (Yesh Atid), while 51 supported it.

lionlass · 18/07/2024 12:26

x.com/swilkinsonbc/status/1813857515366502412?s=46

"Shocking footage of israelis taking aim & striking a Palestinian family with a rocket as they were travelling by horse-and-cart along a road in #Gaza"

PeasfullPerson · 18/07/2024 14:14

ScrollingLeaves · 18/07/2024 11:29

NB Although that July 7 article from Haaretz I posted yesterday said further investigations into Oct 7 would reveal more,
those investigations it seems are not going to happen.

Haaretz yesterday evening:

ISRAEL: The Knesset rejected on Wednesday a bill to establish a state commission of inquiry into the events of October 7. Some 53 coalition MKs opposed the proposal submitted separately by Orit Farkash (National Unity) and Meir Cohen (Yesh Atid), while 51 supported it.

I’m sure that in time there will be an investigation.

anotherlevel · 18/07/2024 22:31

It really tears me into pieces when I see babies being killed. I just can't.

www.instagram.com/reel/C9lCA4AqCNQ/?igsh=MTNhbW1qbXZjdndvcg==

ScrollingLeaves · 18/07/2024 23:22

ConnieCounter · 18/07/2024 15:21

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9kD5q8o3So/?igsh=MWRrMGttZGg0bmNwbA==

Is the woman disrupting drunk or just a dickhead? Both maybe?

It is very good that the Knesset member, the woman with white curly hair, is calling for Palestine to be recognised as a state.

The other woman is not drunk, I don’t think, just unpleasant, cocky, and making fun of her.

ConnieCounter · 18/07/2024 23:28

anotherlevel · 18/07/2024 22:31

It really tears me into pieces when I see babies being killed. I just can't.

www.instagram.com/reel/C9lCA4AqCNQ/?igsh=MTNhbW1qbXZjdndvcg==

My God. That poor baby. They are impossibly tiny. There are no words left to say.

ScrollingLeaves · 18/07/2024 23:35

ConnieCounter · 18/07/2024 20:29

It certainly is. That man is evil.

As for this
Israel’s finance minister Smotrich: “A Palestinian state cannot established since there is no such thing as a Palestinian people!

The Israelis themselves have a military code phrase referring to the Palestinians’ ancient Biblical name, the Phillistines. They have been around as long as the Jews one way or another.

This is from Haaretz July 7 writing about Oct 7
At 6:43 A.M., at which time rocket barrages were launched at Israel and thousands of Hamas operatives were attacking army strongholds and the division's observation and communications capabilities, the division's commander Brog. Gen. Avi. Rosenfeld declared that "the Philistines have invaded."

This is the procedure when an enemy invades Israeli territory, upon which a division commander can assume extraordinary authority, including the employment of heavy fire inside Israeli territory, in order to block an enemy raid.

This man is like Putin trying to say there are no such people as Ukrainians.

ScrollingLeaves · 18/07/2024 23:37

Phillistine still is the Turkish and Greek word for Palestinian.

SummerFeverVenice · 19/07/2024 10:10

The Philistines were refugees that settled along the coast of Palestine due to the Bronze Age collapse. Within a few generations, they had intermixed with the indigenous Canaanites such that their DNA signatures were absorbed.

Today’s Palestinians are descended from the Canaanites, which includes the addition of the Philistines. But Palestinian presence in the region long predates the Philistines.

Sort of like today’s white British are descended from the Britons, which includes the addition of the Romans, the Saxons, the Danes and the Normans- whose DNA has been largely absorbed. White British presence in the British Isles long predates the presence of the English (Angle or Anglii tribe of Saxons that invaded in the 5th century, settling along the East coast of Great Britain) even though many refer to UK citizens as “the English” it’s just an overlay over a much more ancient ancestry linked to the region.

Palestinian/Philistine is analogous to British/English.

ScrollingLeaves · 20/07/2024 18:27

SummerFeverVenice · 19/07/2024 10:10

The Philistines were refugees that settled along the coast of Palestine due to the Bronze Age collapse. Within a few generations, they had intermixed with the indigenous Canaanites such that their DNA signatures were absorbed.

Today’s Palestinians are descended from the Canaanites, which includes the addition of the Philistines. But Palestinian presence in the region long predates the Philistines.

Sort of like today’s white British are descended from the Britons, which includes the addition of the Romans, the Saxons, the Danes and the Normans- whose DNA has been largely absorbed. White British presence in the British Isles long predates the presence of the English (Angle or Anglii tribe of Saxons that invaded in the 5th century, settling along the East coast of Great Britain) even though many refer to UK citizens as “the English” it’s just an overlay over a much more ancient ancestry linked to the region.

Palestinian/Philistine is analogous to British/English.

Thanks so much for explaining that history, and giving that comparison to Britain.

ScrollingLeaves · 20/07/2024 18:38

From Haaretz 19July Gideon Levy.

Perhaps look up “I shoot because I am bored” someone posted a couple of weeks ago.

^A Palestinian Boy Was on His Way Home From Soccer Practice When He Was Shot Dead by Israeli Troops
Soldiers shot and wounded a 12-year-old boy from Ramallah, then prevented a Palestinian ambulance from evacuating him for 20 minutes. Eight days after he was abandoned by the roadside bleeding, he died,^

The memorial corner, in the entrance hall of the small apartment: a goalkeeper's gloves; a pair of black cleats; a Real Madrid shirt emblazoned with the name of the adored Turkish player Arda Güler and his number, 24; a model of a passenger plane; and a photo of the dead boy who owned all these objects. At the age of 12, his dreams revolved around soccer and becoming a dentist. But they will never materialize. He was shot by an Israel Defense Forces soldier as he tried to return home from a nearby soccer field.

AhNowTed · 21/07/2024 10:57

Barbaric.

5 masked settlers armed with clubs attack a family at their home, hospitalising 2 - accompanied by the IDF who threatens the poor innocent family. The soldier says he is "protecting Israeli citizens".

These people are monsters.

Full video:

x.com/alhaq_org/status/1814720851880587265?s=46&t=tm415yZZZz0e-dE263leqA

LordPercyPercy · 21/07/2024 11:41

There's been a bit of an update on the dog attack story, seems it wasn't quite as straightforward as initially portrayed:

https://x.com/mishtal/status/1814930617080881243

x.com

https://x.com/mishtal/status/1814930617080881243