Disgusting comments like this normalised

[jerkorperk]

I see countless UK run accounts like this. Hundreds of comments just like this.

Why? It's horrendous. How can we let this be said in Britain without any consequences?

You couldn't start conversations about other communities and not end up reported to the police.

Sorry, I missed this. Re "moving on for those not directly affected by bereavement", the extensive studies in NI have shown that trans/intergenerational trauma is huge. Children today who were not even born in the Troubles are still being affected. Poverty, mental health issues, suicide, lack of education etc etc are attributed to the Troubles. Just because there was a formal peace process, does not mean that paramilitary activity has ceased. A massive part of the 'moving on' process involves prior recognition, apologies, restorative justice, compensation, and funding for ongoing help. Children in the OPT have not reached the 'post' phase of the trauma, as it's still ongoing. Moving on will not be happening any time soon, and especially not until they have achieved their basic human rights.

I don't know much about Hamas to be honest, but I speak for myself and I know my intentions so no, it doesn't really bother me and I'm not inclined to interview people at protests to find out what they mean either. The area I'm in, it's 95% white people attending the protests.

Coming back to this, no intellectual curiosity about how a group of 95% white people have ended up out on the streets chanting a slogan used by Middle-Eastern terrorists to call for a country to be wiped off the map?

poshsnobtwit I think you're tilting at windmills on this thread - nobody is supporting Netanyahu and everyone wants peace. It's not a simple problem, there won't be a simple solution and I think you should reread the brilliant posts from noblegiraffe and israelilefty.

Any argument that focuses on 'who started it' and where the original sin was committed is doomed. Israel needs to rein in the WB settlers hard, Palestinians need to accept there will be no right to return to their former homes. I would rather like to return to the lovely Berlin home that belonged to my family in the 40s, but here we are.

And all of us (including me) need to get a lot wiser to the wider global interests at play.

Any talk of Israel handing back land that they illegally grabbed is met with "but what about the jews, they deserve a state!"

Do you mean the occupied land in the West Bank (perfectly reasonable) or the entirety of the land in Israel (not so much, essentially demanding the destruction of the state of Israel)?

Is that what you really think? If so please keep your anti semitic posts to yourself.

???

@Ketzele I'm not tilting at windmills, and nor did I say anyone is supporting Netanyahu, I have been merely responding to posters questions. I didn't say we need to focus on "who started it" either, I'm saying (in response) that part of the peace process is contingent upon acknowledgement on harm (and it may be on both sides). But on that note, why should the Palestinians have to accept there is no right to return? It's always the Palestinians who are expected to accept [insert shitty conditions]. I have read israelilefty's posts and I agree they are very good.
@LordPercyPercy you are the second person who has asked me to clarify what I meant. I think illegally grabbed should clarify what I meant. I will hasten to add that we were repeatedly told throughout threads that it is antisemitic to ask a Jewish person their position on Israel, so I'm not sure why I'm being quizzed here.

So the West Bank settlements then, @poshsnobtwit?

@poshsnobtwit
It's a perfectly reasonable point to clarify. Your refusal to do speaks volumes.

Like I said I’ve attended protests here in Ireland not the UK and I don’t get a sense of that element. Support for Palestinians is rooted in something else here. But regardless, I want myself and especially my children to see that we didn’t just watch this unfold passively and that it is always worth speaking out against injustice even when it feels futile.

But, by standing with the Israel at this point in time, you are also standing alongside extremists.

But zionism does not equate to Judaism and many many Jews have said this.

I guess not.

The point there is if people are merely 'antizionist not antisemitic' why do synagogues keep being attacked?

Another good question is why do people attribute to Zionists all the old conspiracy theory tropes that used to be attributed to Jews?

But, by standing with the Israel at this point in time, you are also standing alongside extremists.

Sorry, what the fuck is that based on? What extremists am I personally standing with?

Lol I haven't refused to clarify anything . I thought my original post was clear. YES I MEAN THE WEST BANK SETTLEMENTS for those who have any shadow of doubts. I'm not sure what volumes this speaks? If I wanted to say I wanted to wipe Israel off the map or that the whole entity was illegal (as the above posters seem to have
hoped) I would just come out and say it. This is an anonymous forum, the worst that would happen is that my post would be deleted. There's absolutely no need for anyone not to say how they feel.

I think it’s an extreme position to stand with an administration that have killed 10’s of thousands of men, women and children in Gaza, destroying infrastructure and ensured continued deaths from disease and hunger. That’s why even Israeli’s allies have gone from talking about the right of defence to war crimes.

This the reality of the situation.

@noblegiraffe - completely agree that synagogues should not be attacked. This is completely wrong.

I think some people are anti Zionist
some people are antisemitic
some people are pro human rights and justice and some people are just horrified by the scenes in front of them. It’s not a homogenous mass of people.

Many many more Jews have not said this so what's your point and how does it relate to attacks on Jewish people and Jewish spaces made in the name of anti-Zionism?

Apologies noble, I missed your previous quote, I don't always get notifications. I don't require any "intellectual curiosity" regarding the matter. I can't speak on everyone's behalf, but I do know that some protestors have lived under occupation themselves, and others simply have a heart and want the slaughter of the Palestinians to stop. They want them to be free from an oppressive regime, it's common sense really.

If @poshsnobtwit is living in Northern Ireland @noblegiraffe and apologizes if I got that wrong - but support for Palestinian’s is very much rooted in a shared sense of solidarity over the fight over decolonisation. Mainly white faces are flying Israeli flags in unionist areas also and they say they are standing with Israel in solidarity against terrorism.

62 people identified as Jewish in the last Northern Ireland census. I just don’t think the flags/marching/statements there have anything to do with antisemitism,

Who is standing with the Israeli administration?

Do you think that just because there are only a few Jewish people somewhere there can't be anti-Semitism? There are very few in places like Yemen and Syria and Afghanistan, do you think anti-Semitism is not a problem in these countries?

it’s my understanding that historically their were Jews in these Middle Eastern countries who were driven out . There is a historical hostility to Israel in the Middle East.

The situation is not comparable - the root of the support for both Israel and Palestine there is completely different.

This is just a fact.

I visited family in April and there are Israeli flags in unionist areas and Palestinian ones in republican areas. It’s like a new colour on an old conflict.

Uhuh, but support for Palestinians and chanting terrorist slogans about wiping out Israel really should be two different things, shouldn't they?

And it's not just in Ireland that they're chanting it.

It's weird, don't you think? The chanting of terrorist slogans about wiping out a country, and the attempts to justify it by pretending that it's not a terrorist slogan when it's you chanting it?

See also: calls to globalise the intifada which really aren't asking for terrorist attacks.

@noblegiraffe
Uhuh, but support for Palestinians and chanting terrorist slogans about wiping out Israel really should be two different things, shouldn't they?

Yes absolutely, they are two different things. I definitely don’t want to wipe out Israel. I’m not chanting anything of. Very much pro peace here.

Your barking up
the wrong tree. Has anything that I said indicated that I want to wipe out a people?

you wanted intellectual reasoning about the marches in NI specially and I gave you it. I would ague that marches in the Republic of Ireland are rooted in something similar but also different at the same time as the memory of occupation is obviously less raw here.

You jumped in to defend @poshsnobtwit 's chanting of terrorist slogans.