Disgusting comments like this normalised

[jerkorperk]

I see countless UK run accounts like this. Hundreds of comments just like this.

Why? It's horrendous. How can we let this be said in Britain without any consequences?

You couldn't start conversations about other communities and not end up reported to the police.

have you missed the Jews calling for an annihilation of the Arabs? Death to their children? Wipe their memory out? Why is it that the aggressor is positioned as the victim here? Or is that OK because they want to self determine?

What, all of them? All Israelis say that? All Jews even, as you claim?

Or because a few extremists say these things, you want to wipe out a country of millions? Or what exactly?

And who is going to change Israel's barbaric regime?

Democratic elections would be the best method...

Why is it that the aggressor is positioned as the victim here?

Yet there have been people working hard to wipe Israel off the map since the moment of its creation. It's not like there's only one country with a barbaric regime doing any attacking here. Are you saying they should all be wiped off the map? Or just that just for Israel?

I didn't say or even indicate that it was all of them. Nor did I say I want it wiped off the map! I would like an end to Israel's barbaric, apartheid policies, I'd like the Palestinians to have the right to live in peace, and for Israel to abide by international laws and standards.

And would like for neighbouring countries to stop attacking Israel?

@noblegiraffe you have often accused posters of being devoid of critical reasoning, however you cannot seem to even grasp that there is another side here, which was occupied and has suffered greatly as a result. I don't know why you keep trying to deflect by saying other countries also contravene laws, I suggest you start a thread about them. This thread is concerning the Israel/Palestine conflict, so it stands to reason that we will be discussing this. It wouldn't really be relevant to bring in China here (I think it's you that constantly complains that people are not protesting for the Ughurs?)
Democratic elections so far have not changed the policies, if anything they are becoming more extreme. The last time I checked the overwhelming majority of Israelis felt that the force deployed in Gaza was proportional, which is obviously very worrying. I must admit though I haven't checked very recently, so this might have significantly changed.

I understand your points and you’ve been clear and reasonable in the way you have phrased them.
Its worth pointing out that after the Second World War many National boundaries were changed and millions of people were displaced, made homeless or found themselves in the same home but in a new country , with a new regime in charge. I have spoken to people who say their grandparents still talk about the orchards, farms, bee hives they had to leave behind as the big powers carved up Europe between them.
There is pain and loss but ultimately they moved on and their children and grandchildren generally survived and thrived

I don’t entirely agree with your use of Northern Ireland as an analogy either . ( I do have a parent from Northern Ireland and am Irish Catholic) . Many/ most of The Protestants in Northern Ireland have lived there for hundreds of years - so yes I think it’s fair to think that most people ( not those who are immediately affected/ bereaved) need to accept they need to “move on” .
“Moving on” is not easy but it’s often the only hope for peace so I’m in favour of it in terms of Northern Ireland.
I thinking “moving on” is out of the question in Gaza and Israel for at least a generation. There has been too much pain. But hopefully in time it will be possible.
Ultimately I completely support the Palestinian right to a homeland AND the Israeli right to a homeland but BOTH sides need to compromise… and both need to “move on “ in time

you have often accused posters of being devoid of critical reasoning, however you cannot seem to even grasp that there is another side here

I'm staying pretty on topic where the OP was talking about 'fuck Zios' and we're discussing antizionism.

I am perfectly aware of Israel's actions. I don't condone them. What needs to be explained is why the response to Israel's actions is to demonise people who think Israel has the right to exist.

I am pointing out that other countries' barbaric regimes, invasion of other countries, land grabbing, or their creation causing the displacement and death of millions hasn't led to people similarly demonising people who think that country has a right to exist.

And when the people actively working to wipe that country off the map are massively antisemitic, one wonders if antisemitism is a motivator.

It should be also be noted that if you want a country to become more extreme in how it deals with defence issues, a massive terrorist attack on its citizens will do it, so you should really be hoping that Israel's neighbouring countries stop attacking it if you want the barbaric regime gone.

You also seem to be mixing me up with other people.

What do you call people who support what is happening in Gaza, Noblegiraffe?

I mean Noblegiraffe it’s one thing calling people antisemetic for apparently wanting the destruction of Israel in a hypothetical situation. However apparently there is nothing to describe people who support the actual destruction of Gaza and it’s people and the continued occupation and violet fragmentation of the West Bank. No of course no words for these people. Many of them are on this thread.

Who on this thread wants the destruction of Gaza?

I suggested 'Netanyahu supporters' earlier. Perhaps you missed it.

As for the idea that there are many people on this thread who support him - you appear to be talking bollocks.

I'm glad I'm coming across as reasonable as there is no tone in text and I genuinely am not being hostile in what I say. I see what you are saying about geographical boundaries being changed post WWII, but I don't see that as comparable to what has happened to the Palestinians. Those who had to flee have no right to return, and many are still living in refugee camps decades later, in poverty. Those who remained have been under a brutal occupation - and I think it's important to get the language right - it isn't merely a "new regime" - and have been 'imprisoned' by checkpoints, making movement extremely difficult. In order to 'move on' there has to be a sense of restorative justice being carried out - and that has been highlighted in NI. However there has never been a pause in the restrictions, so the oppression has not ended. Israel has said that even if there is a ceasefire, the war will certainly not be over. Firstly an acknowledgement has to be made as to the extent of the damage caused, reparations made and justice served. Sadly there appears to be no sign of that by the Israeli government on the horizon, it seems that the regime will ramp up rather than recede.

Personally I do not demonize anyone who claims Israel has the right to exist. I think it would be great if it could have existed without so much pain, destruction and suffering to the Palestinians. I would disagree that other brutal regimes are ignored, I've been to protests regarding women's/girls rights in Afghanistan, the Uighurs, ethnic cleansing in Sudan, Irish language rights (and I'm not a very 'active' person, so I'm sure there are loads that I don't know about going on). The notion that Israel is the only state to ever be called to account is quite ludicrous. I'm sure antisemitism is a motivator for some, in the same way that Islamophobia is a driver for some when they protest about immigration laws or human rights in Afghanistan, but I do believe a lot of people can't look at the scenes we are faced with right now in Gaza and not be shaken to the core.

Apart from anything else though it really shouldn't irk me by now - I'm always bewildered at how ingrained the notion that if any other group it wouldn't be tolerated.
You couldn't start conversations about other communities and not end up reported to the police.

Is it a case of repeating something enough times that eventually it will become true?

Personally I do not demonize anyone who claims Israel has the right to exist.

Which is great. But the OP reports a tweet saying every single 'zio' should go to hell. They either mean Jew, or anyone who thinks Israel has the right to exist.

The notion that Israel is the only state to ever be called to account is quite ludicrous

I'm not making it.

However, how many states do you see weekly chants on the streets of London to wipe out? Not 'call to account', but wipe off the map?

@noblegiraffe Not everyone at protests or making pro Palestine comments on social media want Israel to be “wiped out” I myself have attended protests (I’m in a different country though) and donated to charities to help Gaza and I do not want to wipe anyone out. I do not want to watch this horror unfold without feeling like tried to do something in my own small way.

In fact this poll says that 11% of pro Palestinians support expelling Jews from the region. So you are talking about a minority and I would consider it an extreme view.

Antisemitism is obviously a very real thing, and blaming all Jews for what’s happening in Gaza is completely wrong. But Please don’t tar every one with the same brush.

yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48966-hamas-approval-at-11-among-those-who-sympathise-more-with-palestinians

11% with an extreme view is not exactly insignificant.

"Expelling Jews". FFS.

Expelling Jews from the region is a step further than wiping Israel from the map - the view that I've generally heard put forward is for a one state solution which isn't Jewish (so not Israel, that's gone), with a Palestinian government, where Jews and Palestinians rather optimistically live happily ever after together.

That poll has some incredibly odd results in it though. 2% of those who say that they have more sympathy with the Israeli side say that they support expelling all Jews from the region, and 1% of those who say that they sympathise more with the Palestinian side support expelling all Palestinians from the region.

The poll suggests that there are quite a few people who will say that they sympathise with one side more than the other, but not really have a coherent view of what should happen.

It should also be noted that the wording is 'sympathise with', not 'support'. 44% of those who say that they sympathise more with the Palestinian side say that they also sympathise with the Israeli side to some extent, and 43% who sympathise more with the Israeli side, sympathise with the Palestinians to some extent. A quarter polled said that they sympathise with both sides equally, and 31% said they didn't know who they sympathised more with. The vast majority of people are not rabid side-pickers in this complex situation. A poll of those would probably be more alarming.

Personally I'd feel quite uncomfortable attending a march where more than one in ten held extreme racist views and thought terrorist attacks are justified.

Which is great. But the OP reports a tweet saying every single 'zio' should go to hell. They either mean Jew, or anyone who thinks Israel has the right to exist

One tweet isn't exactly a scientific sample. People spew stuff all the time on the internet. I wouldn't extrapolate from this that people are "actively working to remove Israel from the map".
ETA: It should be of much greater concern how many tens of thousands of children are being murdered, maimed and psychologically tortured than rubbish people are writing on X.

I didn't extrapolate that from the tweet, I extrapolated that from the actions of the people who are actively working to remove Israel from the map. You know, like, Iran and its proxies?

Out of interest, why do you think the rhetoric of people who are actively working to remove Israel from the map (from the river to the sea, describing Israel as the Zionist entity etc etc) is appearing in Western social media?

Apologies, you said you've been referring to the Op's tweet. I say 'from the river to sea...' and for me it means I want Palestinians to be free from occupation and oppression, basic human rights etc. My primary concern is not upholding an oppressive regime. Does this mean I want to wipe all jews out? Certainly not. When people talk about solutions it's always expected that the Palestinians accept any crumbs they are thrown. Any talk of Israel handing back land that they illegally grabbed is met with "but what about the jews, they deserve a state!". I don't think anyone on this earth is entitled to something at the death and destruction of others, and this is what Israel was and is until the current day. The government need to be pulled into line (by whom, I've no idea), follow international laws, award decent human rights to Palestinians.

I say 'from the river to sea...' and for me it means I want Palestinians to be free from occupation and oppression, basic human rights etc

What do you think Hamas mean when they say it? Does it not feel wrong to be parroting slogans used by terrorists and justifying it with 'but I mean it a different way'? How are people supposed to tell which people are using it in the same way as Hamas and which people are not actually calling for Israel to be wiped off the map?

Any talk of Israel handing back land that they illegally grabbed is met with "but what about the jews, they deserve a state!"

Do you understand that there are people who consider the entirety of Israel to be 'illegally grabbed land'? It is probably worth clarifying what land is being discussed.

I don't think anyone on this earth is entitled to something at the death and destruction of others

Do you feel the same way about Pakistan, the deliberate creation of a Muslim homeland at around the same time as Israel, causing huge upheaval, death and destruction?

I mean, these things happened and we cannot turn back the clock. Note that I do not condone what is going on in the West Bank and a two state solution would hopefully end this.

The government need to be pulled into line (by whom, I've no idea), follow international laws, award decent human rights to Palestinians.

Agree that countries should follow international laws and respect human rights. I'm not sure the anti-West coalition of countries that is rapidly building agree with that though, and we may in the future find ourselves being 'pulled into line' by them rather than vice versa. Israel and Ukraine are battlefields in that conflict, which certainly muddies the waters when it comes to international support.

What do you think Hamas mean when they say it? Does it not feel wrong to be parroting slogans used by terrorists and justifying it with 'but I mean it a different way'? How are people supposed to tell which people are using it in the same way as Hamas and which people are not actually calling for Israel to be wiped off the map?

I don't know much about Hamas to be honest, but I speak for myself and I know my intentions so no, it doesn't really bother me and I'm not inclined to interview people at protests to find out what they mean either. The area I'm in, it's 95% white people attending the protests.

Do you understand that there are people who consider the entirety of Israel to be 'illegally grabbed land'? It is probably worth clarifying what land is being discussed

I don't feel any need at all to make any sort of clarification. Why would I?

Do you feel the same way about Pakistan, the deliberate creation of a Muslim homeland at around the same time as Israel, causing huge upheaval, death and destruction?

Pakistan is not a Muslim homeland, you cannot gain entry and/or citizenship on the basis of being a Muslim. It was the partition of Muslim/Hindu India and then Bangladesh, and yes a lot of blood was unfortunately spilled. It's not however comparable to Israel.

I mean, these things happened and we cannot turn back the clock. Note that I do not condone what is going on in the West Bank and a two state solution would hopefully end this

For someone who is so invested in defending Israel, you don't seem to listen to what they government are saying. A two state solution is not an option for them, moves were strategically made to prevent this being a possibility. And no, the clocks cannot be turned back. Fairly recently a representative of the Balfour Project said that in hindsight Balfour was wrong and Palestinians will be paying the price forever. However, when looking forward, acknowledgements, reparations, compensations need to be offered. You cannot abuse someone and then say 'just move on', it would be a travesty of justice.

For someone who is so invested in defending Israel, you don't seem to listen to what they government are saying

You don't seem to be listening to what I'm saying.

I don't support Israel's actions. I don't support their government. I don't support what is happening in Gaza, I don't support what is happening in the West Bank.

Concern about antisemitism, about Hamas chants, about the demonisation of Zionists, about anti-western rhetoric is NOT defence of Israel's actions.

What a shallow analysis.