War Hezbollah and Israel

[EasterIssland]

News seem to indicate a war between Israel and Hezbollah seems imminent , hopefully they’re wrong

Biden has said they’ll support Israel and several ships are on their way to support Israel

from what I’ve read , hezbollah has got more and stronger weapons than Hamas in Gaza

I can only think about how many innocent civilians are going to die because incompetent politicians and many times men.

Mods decided my post pointing out that users endorsing collective punishment was in breach of guidelines so they deleted it ... Goodnight and goodluck Mumsnet.

I don't care where they were blown up.

The method is unacceptable and very likely a war crime. And it's incredibly concerning beyond the remit of this particular conflict. But some individuals and groups will have done well from it. Another modern method of killing tried and tested for future reference. Sadly, we all know where this sort of thing leads. The end does not justify the means.

This seems more like the desperate move of a rogue state, rather than a democratic nation.

I imagine they want to create a level of paranoia, ‘oh look what we are capable of’, which reminds me, isn’t that how terrorism works?

And speaking of terrorism, yes many people are now aware of what Israel’s idea of a ‘terrorists’ is.

According to the BBC, two children are confirmed killed and an ophthalmologist is reporting huge numbers of people blinded, with one or both eyes needing removed.

This is a terrifying event for the people of Lebanon.

It's also been reported that the devices made alert noises before exploding, thought to have been so that people would have devices near their faces and in their hands, to maximise the trauma to those areas from the blasts.

This does not bring people closer to peace, it just exacerbates terror, trauma and division.

Indeed. USA was a few days ago talking with Israel about peace with Lebanon

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/sep/17/exploding-pager-attack-in-lebanon-is-another-blow-for-us-peace-hopes

Israel is like my son, I ask them not to do something and a sec after they do it

They were blown up in the hands of terrorists

2 children have been killed. Were these kids terrorists ?

I doubt it. Unlikely I would have thought.

💯

It is terror.

From the guardian
Those responsible for a deadly wave of explosions across Lebanon targeting paging devices used by members of the Hezbollah militant group “must be held to account”, the UN rights chief said on Wednesday.
“Simultaneous targeting of thousands of individuals, whether civilians or members of armed groups, without knowledge as to who was in possession of the targeted devices, their location and their surroundings at the time of the attack, violates international human rights law and, to the extent applicable, international humanitarian law,” Volker Türk said in a statement, reports Agence France-Presse (AFP).
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i can see that EU has also been critical about this attack. I’m glad that international organisations aren’t happy with this attack and worried about Israels actions. Glad that they agree with my thinking

also hezbollah is saying that they’ve attacked today Israel artillery positions

It is horrific to deliberately detonate devices in this manner, when anyone could have been holding them or in possession of them. To intentionally blind and maim people like this shows a real level of cruelty and disregard for human life.

Israel specifically targeted a known set of devices which had reportedly been handed out by Hezbollah to their followers to coordinate their attacks. Very few of those devices will have been in “innocent” hands. Hezbollah have been firing missiles indiscriminately into Israel for months, and have as a stated aim the destruction of Israel. I would much rather Israel were this deliberate and focussed in who they targeted, and although two children is too many it is a lot fewer civilian casualties than if Israel had fired rockets into civilian areas to take out Hezbollah fighters. Would you have preferred that? It is a new type of lunacy to castigate Israel for any approach it takes to defend itself. Hezbollah aren’t going to stand in uniforms with guns identifying themselves to Israel so that laws of combat can be adhered to.

Sky news are reporting that there have just been 2 more blasts in Beirut which they think are more communication devices... Will try to find a source.

Alex Crawford from Sky News on Twitter says these new explosions seem to involve Hezbollah 2 way radios...

Alex Crawford

@AlexCrawfordSky
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1m

There are reports coming in of replica explosions involving two-way radios in other parts of Lebanon eg Saida and Nabatieh (both south)

More than 100 injured according to bbc

The latest blasts seem to indicate that it has something to do with devices that use batteries.
It is terrorism, though it will not be condemned as such.
What if a person carrying a device had been on a plane when it exploded? I hope commercial airlines and national agencies are investigating this urgently.
The rules of war have just been broken again and we now have a new method of warfare that can be used by any country or non state actor.

Has any other country ever done something like this?

Not on this scale and so indiscriminately. Assassinations absolutely, we have companies we pay to keep our hands clean (Blackwater etc.)

Lots of people are celebrating not realising what this means for the whole world.
Then again a lot of people laughed when this happened: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/11/israel-appears-confirm-cyberattack-iran-nuclear-facility

Now we have precedent for targeting infrastructure and consumer electronics. Yay!

Now we have precedent for targeting infrastructure and consumer electronics. Yay!

I know, it changes the rule book. But then what Hamas did in October last year also did. It's like all the rules are off now. All of it is extremely bad for all of humanity seeing what sort of describe technology is available. The polarised 'conversations' online are also worrying.

Well if US supports Israel on this action, we should stay the hell away from it. It seems disgraceful to me, and apparently it is illegal. Let Starmer get his legal head around that. I absolutely do not want the UK to become a more dangerous place because politicians can't think straight, so let's hope he does.

Not that any of his predecessors, left or right, have much of a track record in that department.

This was my first reaction when I heard about it. What precedent is being set who else will use this as a weapon it just makes everybody less safe. If there ever was an example of the end not justifying the means this is it.

The blowback is already happening, with many countries and ordinary citizens looking to change their electronic devices. Many posts today on social media about Chinese smartphones etc. Huawei will be particularly happy. The general feeling is that people do not want to use any Israeli and by extension American technology products as they're liable to be compromised. So not only was this move of no strategic benefit it will have a knock on effect on Western technology companies.

A person Andrew Marr was speaking to on an LBC news analysis about how this was all done said that any device with a lithium battery could potentially detonated.
(I have already posted it on other threads.)

This guy, Sam Kiley states that any lithium battery could be turned into a bomb, but that is nonsense. Lithium ion or even LiPo batteries do not explode, they combust (deflagrate). They cannot transform their energy in a short enough time to cause an explosion. Their internal resistance prevents them from doing this.
Sure they will heat up, and left alone long enough they will burst into flames, but will not explode. Sam Kiley and Andrew Marr were scaremongering.
The pagers and walkie talkies almost certainly had their batteries doctored so that they were half battery, half explosive ( probably RDX or a derivative thereof)
Modern electronic equipment is built with the minimum of spare space within the casing. With tiny surface mount components and everything else squeezed in you'd be hard pressed to get a bumble bee inside a modern hand held device. The only place for explosive would be in the battery, which can take up to 25% of a devices volume. Doctored batteries and doctored firmware are probably how the Israelis did it. Supply chain question is very interesting. Who actually manufactured the pagers ? Made in Israel under license or manufacturers passing a few thousand over to be "adapted".? That's another interesting part of the story. Also worth noting that Hungary was the address of the shadow company. Orban and Netanyahu have an interesting relationship.

I don’t think it’s worth ordinary citizens worrying about this. There are so many ways that somebody could hurt you if they really wanted to, what’s the benefit of living in fear. But if people boycott things as a means of protest, then I think that’s great.

I think the point is that Israel has acted outside of the law and outside of what some might consider the social contract we all have with each other. There are lines that shouldn’t be crossed, it only encourages others to do the same. Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should. That is not a sign of genius, it is a sign of absolute stupidity.