This is the reality of Hamas

[keenforhelp]

This is a very interesting opinion piece and underlines how difficult it is and has been for Israel.

There must be more international calls for Hamas to be removed from Gaza.

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2023/11/17/cole-the-reality-of-hamas/

Reality of Hamas is they don't give a fuck about Israelis which is very obvious, but they also don't give a fuck about the very small minority of Gazans who oppose them. 👇

Hamas are pure evil and a threat to decency, democracy and human rights everywhere,

They really don't. The leadership is prepared to let innocent people die needlessly, and anyone who actually stands up to them is in danger. That's one of the reasons why so many people will say they support them, even in supposedly 'anonymous' surveys - they've seen what happens. There is a growing voice of dissent though; hopefully that can continue to grow.

Tonight on BBC news they showed a man who had criticised Hamas brutally beaten up by Hamas.

A Palestinian activist known for organising anti-Hamas protests in Gaza has been taken to hospital after an attack by a group of masked men.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx82xx9pj5do

Brave man.

“…group of masked men…” would it choke the BBC to just say “Hamas”? 🙄

Can’t be untoward about genocidal terrorists now can we?

There is currently no critical mass of Gazans who are opposed Hamas. Even pre-2023 NATO STRATCOM report was clear they didn't think it was possible to get there due to a number of factors which does include genuinely high level of support for Hamas.

Polls from Palestinian pollsters which also includes the WB is the best indicators we currently have.

I realise some will not be able to conceive that a majority of a population can genuinely support a barbaric terrorist group. But I'm under no such illusion.

If you read the BBC article itself, it says here,

Fatah, the ruling party in the West Bank and political rival of Hamas, released a statement on Monday condemning “the blatant assault on activist Amin Abed in Gaza”.

It did not name Hamas, but said the "de facto authorities in Gaza" had allowed "criminality" to spread in the enclave and held them fully responsible for Abed's well-being.

I would say that the BBC reported the information they had.

It is a pity Israel does not allow foreign correspondents like the BBC.

I realise some will not be able to conceive that a majority of a population can genuinely support a barbaric terrorist group. But I'm under no such illusion

I hope I am not under an illusion in believing that the majority of Israelis are not as barbaric as their current government, certain of their ministers, IDF commanders, and many IDF soldiers make them appear to be.

Babarians wielding US bomb power, with a majority backing them up, would certainly be something to despair over.

Blatant Whataboutery and False Equivalence right there.

The two are not the same and how a terrorist group operates, gains support and so on is very different to that of legitimate sovereign Governments.

Always mildly interesting to see the clear attempts at Whataboutery, deflection and False Equivalence.

In case it's escaped your attention, this thread is entitled This Is The Reality Of Hamas.

Nothing else. 🤦‍♂️

As I said, many cannot conceive of how significant groups of people can and do support Hamas. Much as people don't like them, the polls of Gazan and West Bank support is still significant.

Like I said, there is no critical mass of Gazans opposed to Hamas so far. What we're seeing is small rifts, including within Hamas. Weeks ago, I explained how Israel has been using PsyOps to encourage that.

But, as per NATO StratCom COE, its not expected to realise a critical mass of local Gazan population dissent.

I’ll try again,

Re I realise some will not be able to conceive that a majority of a population can genuinely support a barbaric terrorist group. But I'm under no such illusion

I can well understand that the majority of a population can genuinely support a barbaric terror group. It happens when a population feels terrorised, under attack, and oppressed by a not only barbaric, but more powerful, well-armed, US-sanctioned military force, and feels their home terror group is their only hope against the outside one.

I completely understand why people in Gaza would say they support Hamas. I would probably do the same if I lived there. I would not be brave enough to oppose them.
I don’t understand why Palestinian supporters in this country rarely denounce Hamas.

this is the latest poll I believe

“The poll, conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR) between May 26 and June 1, found that overall support for Hamas in the Palestinian territories stood at 40%, a six-point increase from the previous survey three months ago.
Before the war, overall support for Hamas stood at 22% and support for Fatah stood at 26%.
Armed struggle is considered by a little over half of Palestinians (54%) to be the preferred option to end Israeli rule and establish a Palestinian state, while only a quarter chose negotiations, and 16% opted for “nonviolent resistance.””

https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-support-for-hamas-on-the-rise-among-palestinians-now-double-fatahs/amp/

"I don’t understand why Palestinian supporters in this country rarely denounce Hamas."

Usually because they've taken up a binary viewpoint, e.g., they view the IDF a immoral and cannot then denounce Hamas due to their binary thinking.

This is highly common behaviour not just amongst those who are terrorist supporters and fellow travellers, but also amongst the sneaking regarders. Speed & willingness to deflect from a terrorist organisation in order to focus on a Sovereign Government is a sign of a sneaking regarder, for example.

Another would be they don't really know very much about what Hamas does, how they think, how they operate, how they manipulate people and so on. Its not simple or straightforward, so they far prefer the more simplistic narrative regarding the IDF that's pushed routinely.

As we've seen recently from the United States, Iran has been using paid activists in the US to foment what we've been seeing there. The same kind of thing has been going on in various European States too.

https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/press-releases-2024/3842-statement-from-director-of-national-intelligence-avril-haines-on-recent-iranian-influence-efforts

So, there will be multiple reasons why Westerners aren't denouncing Hamas at these protests. Little of it good.

It's possible. I mean on 9/11 they cheered. 7/10 they celebrated and hit and spat at hostages. Some joined in with the 7/10 attack. It's easy to assume that everyday people don't support hamas because it's disgusting if they do.

Still they hold onto hostages and many on release say they live in everyday homes.

I think most Palestinian civilians have been terrorised for so long that they haven’t the luxury of “choosing” to support Hamas. If they were given hope and opportunities I think most would want to be rid of Hamas.
I hope I’m not wrong.

I hope you're not wrong too.

I don’t think it would be easy to overcome the generations of ideological hatred for Israel, Hamas or no Hamas, even before this current conflict. It would probably take at least a generation or more to overturn that if it was even possible with strong, moderate leaders who denounce the ideology and only wish for peace and prosperity for the Palestinian people, not to use them as pawns in a religious battle against Jews.

The ideology is not just for hope and opportunities, which arguably could have been achieved long before now with over $40 billion in aid having been given between 1994 and 2020 with $4.5 billion given to the tiny 25 mile strip of Gaza from 2014-2020, but for a Jewish state not to exist in the Middle East and that predates Hamas.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_Palestinians

Hamas are not/have not been the only Palestinian terrorist entity btw. It’s quite eye-opening how many there are/have been if you look at the Groups section!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_political_violence

Indeed.

If only the ideology was one of doing their best for their people and using that money to prosper. It could be a better country, there is a better way.

Sadly hatred brings to this stage in time. Perhaps the mentality of being a martyr for Allah doesn't help.

There will be no peace in the region all the while organisations such as Hamas exist.

An increasingly fashionable position among self-styled "progressives" is to advocate the "one-state solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This "solution" envisions a single "secular, liberal, democratic state" encompassing the entire former mandate of Palestine, with a "right of return" for millions Palestinian "refugees." There is, however, a serious blind-spot in the argumentation of the one-state proponents regarding their treatment of Palestinian political culture, both past and present. The one-state proponents systematically whitewash Palestinian political culture by denying, ignoring, or obscuring its Islamic, Islamist, and antisemitic aspects. Their goal is to distract their readers from the illiberal, undemocratic aspects of Palestinian society to keep the focus relentlessly on the real or imagined sins of Israel. They use propaganda as a tool of war to strip Israel of legitimacy and international support and to blind the well-meaning but uninformed readers to the very real risks that Jews would face as a minority living under an Arab and Muslim majority in a re-unified Palestine.

I don't support the idea of a one state solution. I don't think it would be viable or benefit either Israelis or Palestinians. I do take issue though with some of the claims you made in your post.

Their goal is to distract their readers from the illiberal, undemocratic aspects of Palestinian society
I don't think anyone is in doubt of how undemocratic Hamas are and the current political governance in Gaza.

To keep the focus relentlessly on the real or imagined sins of Israel.
It is Israel and their actions in Gaza that are keeping the focus on the current sins of the Israeli government which unfortunately are very real.

They use propaganda as a tool of war to strip Israel of legitimacy and international support
There is no need for propaganda the Israeli governments relentless campaign in Gaza is fully responsible for stripping Israel of legitimacy and international support. Your suggestion that people are well meaning and uninformed is insulting and minimising what we can see happening in Gaza. Trying to suggest we are being misled is an Israeli tool of propaganda

France was occupied during WW2 as everybody knows. Most of the French population didn't condemn the occupier or the Vichy government because to do so would have been a death warrant for you and your family. I include my relatives in this group. Their silence didn't mean they supported what was happening.
If a poll had been conducted, at the time, for their support for the German occupation by the occupiers, I am pretty sure that most would have been openly supported it.
To be in defiance of a brutal regime demands a level of bravery that most don't have. My great aunt did and was tortured by the Gestapo and deported.
It goes without saying some did support the regime and profiteered from it.
I think it's the same with Hamas.

It is easy for us to judge the Palestinians in Gaza whilst we live in a safe place.

Content warning for rape, genital mutilation, sexual assault of corpses:

www.thejc.com/news/israel/nova-festival-survivor-reveals-for-the-first-time-how-he-was-raped-by-hamas-terrorists-on-october-7-d03oqt9j

Read an account of that last night. Absolutely brutal.

Also chilling
https://x.com/HeidiBachram/status/1815810278308847827