This is the reality of Hamas

[keenforhelp]

This is a very interesting opinion piece and underlines how difficult it is and has been for Israel.

There must be more international calls for Hamas to be removed from Gaza.

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2023/11/17/cole-the-reality-of-hamas/

It's about perspective. The reasons are valid they didn't agree to it.

Their reasons were merely tactical. They really wanted 100% which isn't realistic.

Clinton got them 97% at the time.

Tactical reasons is short term thinking whereas strategic reasons is long term.

Palestinian leaders have a track record of tactical reasons and should remember they're not a major power in MER. So they have to be realistic.

Israeli leaders, like them or not, have a track record of strategic planning which has resulted in evolved defensive and offensive measures against their enemies. E.g., IDF, Iron Dome, David's Sling, arming Israeli citizens, etc.

Strategic thinking is what you want.

Hamas also have tactical thinking and not strategic planning as they know they cannot defeat the IDF militarily.

Have you any evidence that Hamas are planing to come for all of Europe? Or is this something you just know?

Yes, it's worth remembering Yasser Arafat's basic belief: that Israel should not exist.

I grew up in the 1970s, in the shadow of the PLO's terrorism. Skyjacking was a favourite hobby of theirs.

So can anyone here say in simple language what meaningful concessions were made to those whose property was taken in 1948 in the various deals offered? At face value , none of them seemed to offer enough to draw support from moderates, never mind extremists.

Yes.

Plenty of useful people in the west who ignore this.

The terrorist organisations must be defeated.

You know, Hamas is so evil. October 7th was all part of Sinwar's plan to make Israel look bad. They wanted to get Israel so mad that they would do a genocide. It was a simple plan really: 1-Oct 7th 2- Genocide 3-world gets mad.
This is what Hamas is making the Israelis do. They don't want to do this. Hamas made them kill their women. Hamas made them kill their children. Hamas made them starve them, or go into a pile of rubble and put on a girls nightie. They made them take TikToks.

This kind of argument is the most repugnant form of victim blaming. Just so you can change the accountability and now you don't have to feel bad about supporting Israel and everything it does.

You sound like you support Hamas, being so sarcastic about how 'evil' you think they are.

Are Hamas not evil in your eyes? Your post is one of cynicism and comes across that you don't think Hamas are actually 'evil'. I realise many support their 'resistance' as they term it. I've seen lots of that on the threads.

Isnt the truth of it that, just like in Israel, the people of Palestine largely support the Hamas narrative (as in Israelies support the governments narrative even though Netenyahu is not popular himself)

Many of the people killed on Oct 7 did not support the government narrative.

You're talking about Jewish people who didnt support Israel's position on Gaza?

Perhaps not, but the majority of the population do. And the majority of the population support Israel's response to Hamas. And the majority of Gazans support the actions taken by Hamas and the narrative of Hamas

So while you can get rid of Hamas (one day), the vast majority of those under Hamas at the moment still are of the same position of Hamas. ie, they want the end of Israel, like most of the ME

And lots of people support the people of Palestinian who support hamas in getting rid of Israel. Interesting isn't it. So Israel knows this. Might explain some things, they don't want to be wiped out.

Of course. Israel knows it is surrounded by 100% hostile territory.

Well, quite.

im not sure most people in the UK realise how deeply the ME hates Jews and Israel. They want the end of Israel because they hate the Jews.

Well, yes and no

Originally, without a 'Jewish state', there just hatred of the Jews, due to historical belief of some

Then when a Jewish state was formed, and other ME countries saw their people if you like displaced, turfed out, made homeless, it developed into a hatred of the actual state of Israel.

So one might say, the second position has more logic behind it. People lost their lands, businesses, family connections etc etc. Its legitimate to be angry about that, and then the later actions which were or were seen as landgrabs

Israel would of course say, it was defending itself,, it needed a state of safety given centuries of anti semitism and of course the war (although the state of Israel was a concept from around 1890 I believe)

A massive can of worms that is likely to never end

Israel is surrounded by enemies: true. This is why it has the world's most sophisticated defence systems: reasonable. Israel maintains a constant state of readiness: sensible.

On October 7th, the Israeli defence system failed. The failure was reportedly due to sexism (the early warnings came from female observers). Whatever the cause, Israel's readiness failed at that moment and they need to fix the weakness. Approx 1,300 Israelis died as a result.

The Middle East still believes deeply in "an eye for an eye" so, disregarding my own feelings about that, it would've been reasonable by prevailing standards to retaliate at the cost of 1,300 Gazan lives.

Current estimates are 38,000 Palestinians dead, and more every day: excessive, to say the least.

I am not justifying Hamas or its supporters. Palestine and Israel are both being ridiculous. Muslim martyrs are being created. A freshly traumatised generation of survivors will perpetuate the hatred. Annihilating Palestine may satisfy Israel's desire to colonise that territory but, by then, the rest of the Muslim world would be sufficiently motivated to re-escalate this literally Biblical war. And Hamas would continue to exist.

I don't know what the hell Israel's thinking. Its amazing defence system couldn't withstand a full-on attack by massed Muslim resources. The rest of the world is desperately trying to prevent that; the repercussions would affect us all for a long time.

The best defence against Hamas was to keep them out of Israel ... which they were doing. I just hope that all the diplomatic efforts will succeed 😢

Jews have always lived in the areas now called Israel and Palestine. Well, in between all the historical events (pogroms, genocide, exile) where others tried to force them out, that is.

Yet to see the pro Palestine flag waving you'd think people from Judea never lived in the area.

Palestine was Philistia, not occupied by the "tribes of Israel". Not getting into the rest of it - living somewhere doesn't imply exclusive occupation, and the shifting politics of Middle Eastern tribal activities can only be (partially) traced through cross-referencing available ancient artefacts with the documented mythologies.

Just wanted to point out that your statement doesn't mean quite what you seem to have intended.

The UK was a collection of small hamlets, villages and towns and it's changed massively been invaded often but ancesters of Cornwall don't slaughter ancesters of Devon. I mean they need their heads banging together but hatred goes on and on and on and on. If it wasn't so tragic I'd call it pathetic.

They must surrender now to avoid further innocent deaths

Why arent the protestors screaming for this to happen?

Because quite a few of them don't want peace, they want Israeli surrender...and all that entails.

Is this correct?

That men in gaza would rather due than let hamas be beaten? I hope its not.

https://x.com/neveragainlive1/status/1790235523086254400