Israel rescues four hostages alive from Gaza who were captured by Hamas at Nova music festival on October 7 - including girl seen kidnapped on back of motorbike

[keenforhelp]

Well done Israel - fantastic, wonderful news
xxx

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13508615/Israel-rescues-four-hostages-alive-Gaza-Noa-Argamani-motorbike.html

I hope so.

Of course they don't, they're innocent civilians. Every Palestinian death is an innocent civilian

I think some don't listen no matter how clearly it's explained even when a very knowledgeable poster sets out point by point why its not a war crime.

It's incredibly sad that innocents are dying. Its incredibly sad that hostages are still held. I believe everyone wants a solution so both Palestinian people and the Israelis can live in their own states peacefully.

Please tell us all how many people who died that day were one of the following:

Hamas terrorists

Civilians engaging in hostilities

Uninvolved Civilians

And please do tell everyone what the other ways are in the circumstances of the hostage rescue mission with the information the commander of the operation had before him at the time of planning?

You making general statements without being specific isn't really going to cut it, especially when you're making claims like yours.

Knowingly or unknowingly, the kind of thing you're saying is music to Hamas' ears and helpful to their war aims. Its cognitive warfare.

This 💯 % over and over and over again.

I hope negotiations today lead to hostage release and a ceasefire.

A short video of the rescue of the three male hostages is available.

As you can see, they're in IDF uniform and weapons are on show. No way any reasonable person would mistake them for civilians. That's not perfidy.

Hamas terrorists, on the other hand, operate wearing civilian clothing constantly which means they're always guilty of perfidy.

x.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1800227576587440585

I'd be surprised if it leads to a successful outcome, especially as Hamas leaders will absolutely pissed beyond belief the Israel Defence Force rescue mission worked.

Personally, I never really comment on negotiations that are ongoing as they mostly end in failure. Talks like that are incredibly fragile as there's usually never a lot of trust going in.

You really need a top class mediator who both sides of the conflict can trust. Difficult to find, imo.

But if it works and a miracle happens, then great!

Good points.

I just hope for a top class negotiator/mediator.

It's clear that hamas have no intention of surrender even when civilians are close to a rescue operation they don't care. They will keep on shooting any weapon regardless of the cost in life of their own civilians. I think that the Israeli government know that which means negotiations where hamas remain in power go nowhere. Hamas leaders who are not in the country don't care and don't want to give up their power and control. The people of gaza and Israel deserve better.

I might be more inclined to believe people thought that if I hadn't received messages celebrating the deaths of civilians and "from the river to the sea, [the Israeli flag] is all you'll see".

The actual operation was a high-risk one, carefully planned. The tactics used were, in several cases, of questionable morality and may have long-term repercussions. Hamas didn't give a damn about the Palestinian civilians. Neither did the IDF. And the people who feel the need to gloat at grieving people are just as heartless.

You certainly didn't receive a single message from me saying anything like that - public or private.

I suggest you report those kinds of messages to Mumsnet who WILL deal them in accordance with the law.

English subtitles have been added to the three male hostage rescue clip by this X user 👇

https://x.com/just_whatever/status/1800233775185469555

I can confirm that I did not receive any messages from your username. There is a limit to what MN is willing or able to do, especially as it is relatively easy for people to change username or create multiple accounts.

There is a limit to what MN is willing or able to do, especially as it is relatively easy for people to change username or create multiple accounts.

They'll be able to see who it is from the IP address, I'd expect them to ban anyone sending abusive PMs.

I do wish you’d name them, I don’t think there is any rule against that. I’d hate to think I could unknowingly be having positive interactions with someone who would be so vile and two-faced.

@Scirocco Mumsnet can check the IP address and it's actually not that easy to get away with multiple accounts.

If you're getting abusive messages from posters then you need to report them.

Wow. A lot of faith in the powers of Mumsnet here.

I hope the users have at least been permanently banned?! Does MN have a way of checking for multiple users?

This is why a lot of people on this board change usernames relatively regularly, by the way - to avoid getting harassed by people who recognise the username and decide they're fair game for having a different opinion to them. It's absolutely ridiculous, specially since people who resort to that kind of behaviour are the most pathetic type of bully - the kind that wouldn't dare behave like that under their own name.

Anyway, point is that I'm sorry that happened to you. That poster didn't speak for me. I'm only on this board for similar reasons, actually - all the gloating and celebrating the deaths on October 7th all over social media really, really upset me. People in Israel were looking for information about their loved ones and the vast majority of comments and reactions were "😂😂😂" type of comments, or worse. It's by far the worst side to the internet - the bullying and inhumanity.

Edited to add I don't mean on MN, I mean on Facebook, Instagram etc

Not from me. I have never and would never send you any private message. I want peace. Take any messages up with MN derailing this thread isn't the place.

Now to the point of this thread. The rescue of 4 hostages, kidnapped on 7th October and now rescued.

When a clearly obvious rescue mission is purposely described as an intentional massacre and a genocide by some, I would argue robustly on this thread that it isn't. As others have done with clearly defined reasons why.

I don't go on the other threads that claim, genocide, massacre on purpose rather than its aim as a rescue mission etc, when it is clear that wasn't the intention, they gave their own views, for various reasons. There are numerous threads like that.

However, on a thread feeling happy that some innocents were rescued some keep making those same incorrect claims. When a few keep returning with their claims those will be robustly argued with factual points as is being done on this thread.

Surely they have some kind of duty to protect their users?! Doesn't seem like a particularly unreasonable expectation to have

This poster has been told multiple times to report any messages like that they receive, there is no need to keep derailing the thread with them stating it again. This thread isn't about the poster.

My point was that some on here are uncritically repeating Hamas propaganda that absolves Hamas of any blame and puts everything on Israel.

From reading some interpretations you’d think that Israel were the only ones with any weapons doing any firing in Gaza. I did see a thread a while back that made the claim in the OP that this wasn’t a war as there was only one ‘side’, and that was Israel.

It’s worrying given that these are people who would probably pride themselves on not falling for Israeli propaganda, but are acting as mouthpieces for terrorists.

I actually think @Scirocco should report the messages. But I don’t have any faith that it will be dealt with properly. When you repeatedly see unfairness, injustice and incompetence within systems that are meant to help you give up on them. If @Scirocco reports it she could let us know what happens.

And it's rather conspicuous when people talk about Israel needing to act proportionally, value civilian lives be held accountable etc during this hostage rescue, but don't say the same about what Hamas did during it.

And to be clear, I'm not sure many people on this board would agree with that person, Scirocco. From what I see we all mostly want the same thing - two peaceful states living side by side. We mostly disagree on how to get there, not on the end-goal.