"Brilliant moment pro-Israel protesters get their own back on pro-Palestine mob"

[keenforhelp]

Pro-Israel supporters have taken to the streets after a cinema was vandalised with graffiti for planning to show a film about the Nova festival massacre at the hands of Hamas terrorists.

Pro-Palestine activists sprayed the Phoenix Cinema in East Finchley, London, with the message "say no to artwashing". In response, members of the Jewish community and campaigners against anti-Semitism are holding a demonstration outside the picturehouse.
Music could be heard blaring, including Elton John's I'm Still Standing, as smiling pro-Israel supporters waved the Israeli flag in a show of defiance.
A tiny band of pro-Palestine protesters are on the scene, however they are vastly outnumbered.

The volunteer, who wished to remain anonymous, told The Telegraph: “It’s just an outrage. People who are survivors of this massacre are coming here and they could have been confronted with red graffiti that honestly looked like blood.
“One of the people here knows someone who survived the massacre and she was coming tonight. Imagine the trauma if she saw this. People from the community have gone together to clean it up.
“It claimed that the film was artwashing - but it’s not. It’s footage from the festival. It shows what happened. There’s no agenda.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1902945/phoenix-cinema-finchley-israel-protest

Love the headline narrative forming how outraged I should be about this. It is indeed "brilliant" that the Israelis "got their own back" on that "mob".

I am a free thinking British person.

There were Israelis there?

Israeli aligned, might be better.

I guess I could copy The Express and do a yellow journalism about that side, but I think that was already done quite well by the Western press in the '30s. Especially in Germany.

oh you must be very old to remember that far back.

I... yes. Yes, I am.

Either way, the Lügenpresse model is effective for shaping the discourse on a topic. After all, you don't want to be on the wrong side when all the papers are editorialising how everyone should feel about the story, else some mouthbreather will deck you for forming wrongthink.

actually I think you are very, very young.....

Every week, hundreds of thousands of protestors in London, akin to a baying mob, ceasefire, from the river to the sea, anti-Semitic tropes in the ranks...

And ONE time, just one time, a group of people want to broadcast THEIR displeasure at a mob showing up inappropriately, and it's LIKE HOW DARE THEY PROTEST, COUNTER PROTEST, gees have the audacity to say "NO! STOP".

Well tough people, it's OK to protest, it's their right! Isn't it this what the Pro-Palestinians supporters proclaim on these threads?

Yes it is!

"That side?"

“And ONE time, just one time, a group of people want to broadcast THEIR displeasure at a mob showing up inappropriately, and it's LIKE HOW DARE THEY PROTEST, COUNTER PROTEST, gees have the audacity to say "NO! STOP".

Where have you been? Just about every pro-Palestine protest has also had a pro-Israel counter protest at the same time.

And, the article says that the Israel protest got to the cinema first and then a tiny band of vastly outnumbered counter pro Palestine protest showed up later, so how can they be protesting “At a mob showing up inappropriately” when there were no pro-Palestine protesters when they started?

Being Jewish doesn't mean on you get to decide, what does and doesn't constitute as being antisemitic. Being against the killing of far far to many innocent Palestinians doesn't make people a hater of Jews. You have no more right to decide what is considered antisemitic than I do. The definition has already been set

Do they do what to other groups? Would I say the same thing to a person of Muslim faith if they were trying to tell me that only they get to decide what constitutes as Islamaphobia, I absolutely would yes!

The withholding of basic supplies such as food and water to a population is considered genocide. The UK and America had to build a pier to deliver food, countries are having to drop it from the sky as it is being withheld by land....

It is their right and for the record, I don't think a pro palastine protest should have been allowed outside this cinema. The police have powers to direct protests and they should have been used here.

If you can, watch the David Baddiel
documentary Jews don’t count on Channel 4 catch up

It is pre 7th October and at about 43:34 he visits his former primary school where they have security drills for attacks. This is consistent with the poster you are responding to’s account.

Good we finally agree on something.

Well that’s a relief

it is generally, and rightly, accepted now that minority groups absolutely should get to define the behaviour that offends, marginalises and excludes them. Why should Jews be excluded from this principle?

Are you not outraged? What should the response be to people trying to prevent the screening of this film?

Has anybody watched the film?
I understand why the local community in that area wanted to attend the screening and I think it was awful that people turned up to stop them doing that.
It is my understanding that local people would have lost family and friends in that massacre.
There is a time and place for protest and this wasn't it.

And, the article says that the Israel protest got to the cinema first and then a tiny band of vastly outnumbered counter pro Palestine protest showed up later, so how can they be protesting “At a mob showing up inappropriately” when there were no pro-Palestine protesters when they started?

Because the pro-Palestine protest outside the cinema was advertised very widely at least a week before. HTH.

I agree with this, it wasn’t the right place for a protest, it was bound to heighten tensions, even though I understand why people would want to do this.

Also, I’m not surprised that a counter protest would be held as people would be feeling quite rightly aggravated and upset.

However, I think the protest and counter protest were both bad ideas as they would have significantly raised the risk of violence and criminal behaviour, which puts everyone present in potentially immediate in danger.

I support protests that take place in a safe and sensible way. There will always in my opinion need to be a balancing act between the right to freedom of speech and the risks to the public. In this specific case I believe the risks were too high.

They either know and ignore it. Or pretend it doesn't exist.

Or don't, and assume that alarms are installed for fun and giggles since the marches couldn't possibly contribute to hatred of Jewish people living in the UK. The marchers are all jolly bouncy happy-go-lucky peeps sharing love and unity. (Clue they aren't)

That post you're quoting was directed at me. I have explained that I don't live in the UK

They either know and ignore it. Or pretend it doesn't exist.
It was neither of those things I did not know because I don't live in the UK and I have not seen it reported by the UK media I get access to. What happens in the UK is not necessarily mirrored in other countries and vice versa.

Or don't, and assume that alarms are installed for fun and giggles since the marches couldn't possibly contribute to hatred of Jewish people living in the UK.
I never assumed that, why would I? I

I am grateful to the posters that took the time to explain the reality of the threat to Jewish schools and synagogues in the UK. No offence was meant, sometimes people outside the UK are ignorant of everything that happens there. I don't think jumping down my throat when I get something wrong is helpful or fair. I apologise for causing any offence with my questions. I am better informed now so won't make that mistake again.

@Dulra it's not just the UK unfortunately. Jewish schools, synagogues and institutions in many places around the world have extra security. I despair a little more every day that general populations don't recognise the constant hate we experience and vigilance we must enact.

I'm not a 'stereotypical looking'Jew and have faced heavy questioning to enter synagogues in Italy, the US and the UK. To attend synagogue the Friday night after the 7 Oct massacres, I had to send the synagogue (that I'm not a member of) a copy of my passport and a link to my LinkedIn profile in advance so they would let me in.

No other minority has to deal with this shit.

It's not at all generally accepted that these groups get to decide because then, like now when there is human suffering and wrong doings being done, they get to use it to silence criticism of that action.

There is a defined definition of antisemitism and I'm absolutely 100% in support of that. What is happening right now in palastine in no more Jewish people's fault than it is mine. Religion does not even come into it. This is a political/leadership issue.

@Mummy2024 Being Jewish doesn't mean on you get to decide, what does and doesn't constitute as being antisemitic.
You have no more right to decide what is considered antisemitic than I do.
Yes we do. Why? Because as a non-Jew you will never truly understand what it's like to experience antisemitism and the number of ways antisemitism manifests itself, including the coded dog-whistles. Just like I don't know what it's like for Muslims to experience anti-Muslim prejudice and hate. I know some of the signs to look out for obviously, but I'm sure there's less explicit dog-whistles I'm unaware of, and I would expect and accept Muslim people pointing that out when it arises.

they get to use it to silence criticism of that action.
This is such a lazy trope now, and generally only used against Jewish people. And while I may be wrong and other groups do experience it, it's still a lazy trope used by people to excuse them of doing an antisemitism.

It's not at all generally accepted that these groups get to decide because then, like now when there is human suffering and wrong doings being done, they get to use it to silence criticism of that action.
Like @Marjoriefrobisher says, my understanding is also that it IS generally accepted now that minority groups get to decide what constitutes prejudice and hate against their group. Obviously you don't agree it should be. Should white people determine what does and doesn't constitute racism and marginalisation against the Black community? I mean, I know they still try to, but I would hope that that is ultimately defined by Black people. Same should apply to Jews.

And before anyone jumps in with 'oh but you all just claim criticism of Israel is antisemitic'. No we don't. (Although a very small minority do and interestingly it's actually non-Jews from what I've seen). You put those words in our mouth for us and you're basically telling us we can't be trusted to decide what is and isn't antisemitism. And once we're accused of doing this often enough (some Mumsnet posters repeat it like a fucking mantra on multiple threads) it sticks and others believe it. It's a well-worn and intentionally hostile tactic.

@79Helene Muslims aren't allowed to decide what Islamophobia is. We aren't allowed to say what hatred and persecution of us looks like. When we report things, they're dismissed. When we point things out, we're told other people don't see them or that we're missing the 'context' or that there must be a good reason.

A Muslim child was attacked not long ago, in the street, and stabbed. The attack was witnessed. The accounts are clear that race and faith were factors. Not classed as a hate crime, or even with those things considered as aggravating factors.