Michael Gove accuses pro-Palestine protesters of turning a blind eye to 'lurid demonstrations of anti-Semitism'

[keenforhelp]

He says it is 'genuinely dangerous' to be a Jew near London marches.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13442195/Michael-Gove-Gaza-pro-Palestine-protesters-blind-eye-anti-Semitism.html

@AdamRyan your assertion that "Unfortunately being anti-Semitic (or any other form of prejudice) is not illegal" is disingenuous. Also it is the victim's perception too that makes it a crime and there are many posters on here who say they feel or perceive anti-Semitism and have their perceptions shut down.

Advice here from the Met Police website:

hwww.met.police.uk/notices/antisemitism/antisemitism-and-how-we-define-it/

"All UK police forces use and recognise the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's (IHRA) 2016 working definition of antisemitism.
We do not accept antisemitism in any shape or form.
The IHRA's definition of antisemitismThe definition is as follows:
"Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed towards Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities."

It IS illegal as it is recognised as a hate crime which is illegal.

The CPS have adopted it too:

https://www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/publications/foi/2018/Disclosure-16.pdf

Hate crimeThe law recognises five types of hate crime on the basis of:

• Race
• Religion
• Disability
• Sexual orientation
• Transgender identity

Any crime can be prosecuted as a hate crime if the offender has either:

• demonstrated hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity

Or

• been motivated by hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity

Someone can be a victim of more than one type of hate crime.
These crimes are covered by legislation (Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and section 66 of the Sentencing Act 2020) which allows prosecutors to apply for an uplift in sentence for those convicted of a hate crime.
The police and the CPS have agreed the following definition for identifying and flagging hate crimes:
"Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice, based on a person's disability or perceived disability; race or perceived race; or religion or perceived religion; or sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation or transgender identity or perceived transgender identity."
There is no legal definition of hostility so we use the everyday understanding of the word which includes ill-will, spite, contempt, prejudice, unfriendliness, antagonism, resentment and dislike.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/hate-crime

Thank you

I'm not talking about anyone on MN specifically here, but there's a real problem when people see this situation as 'sides'. And then get drawn into defending their 'side' over the other side.

There are extremists and bellends on both sides. Some people attack antisemitism because they are Islamophobic (see Tommy Robinson) or because it benefits them politically (see Michael Gove). Some people are obsessed with what Israel are doing in Gaza because they are antisemitic and it suits them to now have a 'cover' to go on the streets and compare Jews to Nazis or chant support for terrorists or call for Israel to be wiped off the map.

But just because Michael Gove or Tommy Robinson has an agenda, it doesn't mean that we can dismiss all concerns about antisemitism as stoking that agenda. But we should be aware of that agenda and try not to stoke it.

And just because there are antisemites criticising Israel, that doesn't mean everyone who criticises Israel is antisemitic. But we should be aware of antisemites and not try to gloss over it or pretend that everyone has good intentions.

Same for your first paragraph. Some of the stuff posted has been awful

Mostly I’m surprised at how quickly people dismiss rather than listen.

Well not surprised, but find it sad or distressing to see.

Stating a fact is not being disingenous and I take exception to you saying it is.

You've misunderstood what a hate crime is.
A hate crime is any crime, where the motive for the crime is hate. From your link:
"Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice"

Being hateful, is not in itself a crime. Unless an antisemitic protesters is also committing a crime, they cannot be arrested. They have a right to lawfully express their opinions.

This is the same framework that protects women at Let Women Speak protests, from being arrested for saying things that others could consider motivated by prejudice about transgender people.

I think a democracy should think long and hard about the unintended consequences of restricting certain views they don't like.

'@AdamRyan You literally wrote that Anti-Semitism is not illegal! Are you for real?

"being anti-Semitic (or any other form of prejudice) is not illegal".

Why are you posting this on a thread where people are worried about anti-Semitism???

You are twisting what I'm saying.

It is a fact it is not illegal in itself. It doesn't make it socially acceptable, it doesn't mean I think it's OK. It means the police can't arrest someone just for "being antisemitic". The person would also need to commit a crime.

If you Want to discuss rationally I'm happy to but if you are just going to call me names I won't engage.

This is so very true.

I think what the poster is referring to is that simply holding a particular offensive belief or opinion is not in itself a crime, it is the demonstration of that belief or opinion that can constitute a crime.

It is not illegal for someone to hate me because of my faith, or to want me to be subjected to forced deportation or detention, etc. It's not even considered illegal for people to talk about those things openly. It's illegal for them to demonstrate that hatred through violence or discrimination (although in reality nothing happens to most people who do that either).

You can definitely be arrested and charged for holding racist placards.

e.g. https://sg.news.yahoo.com/teacher-charged-over-coconut-poster-155850554.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALurbk69zIoXrTNQCaJZ0-AFVLRHxQaxsWfjaxSvgayu_RUP8nScv4hVALKHPcaDXB20jz1qGKMaA9McLYXaAhHIgXOlFGIMK6LxRVcduXAmN4_MbJw-fHiDferyzs_Vyqr6dIK7Xbzn2teHT0kJOA8xH4ILkf21qfqWnqCMmxpq

War is precisely about sides and 'interests'. It is far less about right and wrong. Our Government's interests lie with Israel which is precisely why we see their support for them. Other nations government interests like Iran, Russia and China are with Palestine which is why we see their support for them. It is not about good and evil.

The U.K. is sending and organising significant amounts of aid for Gaza.

I think you meant support for Hamas when you said e.g. Iran’s support for Palestine.

Really? I can’t find where UK has restarted funding the £35m promised to UNRWA. All I can find is £1m via Qatar for air drop and Cyprus sea route to US pier.

I think we have sent Israel more aid, in form of selling weapons and providing spy planes..

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/humanitarian-situation-in-gaza-the-uk-governments-response/humanitarian-situation-in-gaza-the-uk-governments-response

Thank you for this. I was looking at news and not having much luck. 😊

Or indeed the Daily Mail..... I certainly wouldn't take them seriously either!

Well said Michael Gove. You said that even though it was quoted in the DM.

Agree with every word.

How thoroughly tolerant of you.

You mean like Labour did?

Quite, while accusing others of not having a brain! There's a word for this type of intolerance to alternative opinions but I can't type it on here.

I don't tolerate selfish self centred out of touch Tory twats, obviously you do though.

So you're still ignoring the message so you can call him.a Tory twat? Talking of outdated, did you realise freedom of speech evolved way back?

Yes we get it you're Tory voter, news flash lots of people hate what they stand for and that's why they are going to be out of Government in a couple of weeks. Poor you 😊

Who said I voted Tory? Considering you're meant to care so much about the Palestinians' plight, you're getting more riled about the opinion of a Tory. How insular.

I think Govey has a point if not a career in politics