Michael Gove accuses pro-Palestine protesters of turning a blind eye to 'lurid demonstrations of anti-Semitism'

[keenforhelp]

He says it is 'genuinely dangerous' to be a Jew near London marches.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13442195/Michael-Gove-Gaza-pro-Palestine-protesters-blind-eye-anti-Semitism.html

@PeasfullPerson bang on the money. Excellent post.

I have. Being prejudiced against someone on the grounds of their protected characteristic is not a crime. Therefore also not a hate crime.

Here you go:
A hate crime is defined as 'Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race; religion or perceived religion; sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation; disability or perceived disability and any crime motivated by hostility or prejudice against a person who is transgender or perceived to be transgender'

Unfortunately no matter how repugnant you deem someone's views, it doesn't make them a criminal.

Forgot the link: https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/what-is-hate-crime/

Oh look - Police are being told to make fewer arrests because of the lack of space in prisons.

https://x.com/matt_dathan/status/1793016394226835924?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

I agree that antisemitic incidents in this country should not be conflated with or justified by or connected to the actions of the Israeli government. We all have a responsibility to make sure everyone in this country feels safe.

Helpful

I’m not suggesting banning marches. I think that would be undemocratic.
I think it’s right and fair that people protest but also right and fair that people can raise genuine concerns about large marches that occur every week. I think without scrutiny and accountability the marches could degenerate and make life intolerable. It’s not enough to say “ but they are policed” . We have seen an Iranian protester arrested for holding an anti Hamas poster. I’m not a supporter of the Israeli government but my main concern is community cohesion and tolerance in the place in which I live and work.

Let's bear in mind that there is also a protest later this week outside a cinema that's screening SuperNova, a documentary about the massacre at the Nova music festival on October 7th. The screening is in an area with a relatively large Jewish population, and there will be a large Jewish presence at this screening. Why is this protest even happening? What exactly are people protesting against? And how are the people attending this screening going to be kept safe? Moreover - why are they having to be kept safe? They should be allowed to go to this screening without fearing for their well-being. It shouldn't be deemed dangerous to attend.

Why are people so upset about the truth about Hamas atrocities being shared more widely? Why is that such a big problem for them that they feel the need to protest?

Why is someone's right to protest more important than someone else's right to attend a screening of a documentary at a cinema in peace, without harassment?

And to be clear, I've never called for marches to be banned. I've called for them to be better organised and monitored by the organisers. For the organisers to take responsibility for the things that are said and posters that are displayed at the protests. I don't think that's a particularly unreasonable request.

@Humdingerydoo is that part of the demonstrations/campaigning against the Seret film festival?

I find the instant dismissal the issue.

If Jewish people say how they feel about their safety I’ll listen

https://x.com/doubledownnews/status/1792881308831523083?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

A bit of background information on Michael Gove.

Michael Gove is right. I never thought I would ever say that, because I disagree with everything else that he has ever said, but he has a valid point.
It's very troubling how much antisemitism has emerged in recent months, and if Jewish people are concerned - we should listen.

No idea, maybe? The call to protest outside the cinema that I've seen doesn't mention it, it mentions protesting against the screening of the "Zionist propaganda film". So clearly the film itself is considered an issue by some, not whether or not it's part of a film festival.

The film is a documentary about the massacre. A bit fucking disrespectful to be protesting that, no? I thought we all agreed what Hamas and their friends did was beyond evil, and 100% unacceptable.

If people protest the screening of the documentary I think it's time to think about what the morals and beliefs of these protesters actually are. To think about whether or not they're showing any kind of humanity, or if they're just being insanely disrespectful to these victims of terrorism and treating them as though their stories aren't worthy of being told. Treating them as unimportant.

Protesting outside this particular screening is just going to isolate and ostracise the Jewish community further. If people are ok with that, I'd ask you to think about why you're ok with it. Is it what a previous comment said, since deleted for being anti-Semitic, and that people think Jews can't be trusted to tell the truth about antisemitism and will exaggerate it? If so, do you also think women exaggerate if they say they don't feel comfortable walking alone in town at night? Why aren't Jewish concerns taken seriously? Why are they so regularly dismissed?

Why can't the organisers just agree to take responsibility, and actively uninvite those who attend for anti-Semitic or pro-Hamas reasons? Make it clear they're not invited, not welcome to attend. Name and shame them! Deal with the issue, stop just ignoring it.

Ugh.

I simply don't understand in a civilised society why when a Jewish person says they are suffering from anti-Semitism that is being questioned.

Jewish people are saying that they feel unsafe and that they feel threatened. Why are we as a society questioning whether that is justified or not

There has been a massive increase in anti-semitic attacks in the past year. This needs to be addressed and whether you like to dislike Michael Gove as a politician is irrelevant

No-one is questioning that.

I don't think it is as simple as "Michael Gove is right". The right to peaceful protest is necessary to democracy. The right to freedom of speech and allowing a plurality of views (even ones most people would find repugnant) is necessary to democracy.

So I have a question for you. How would you tackle antisemitism at protests and protect our democratic rights to protest and to free speech?

What I find difficult to understand is that, in one hand this government is condemning ( rightly) antisemitism but , on the other hand, whipping up Islamophobia through their rhetoric. Is one type of racism worse than the other, in their eyes?
No racism should be tolerated. Full stop.

I did manage to read some of the appalling examples on antisemitism, which I am very sorry people are experiencing. This should be focused on as a separate issue to the actions of the Israeli government

It is absolutely impossible to discuss antisemitism without people bringing up the Israeli government. Just try it on MN. It's pretty clear that there are plenty of people out there who think that the actions of the Israeli government mean that antisemitism is either justified, or not worthy of concern.

The film is a documentary about the massacre. A bit fucking disrespectful to be protesting that, no?

Yes, and just a little bit fucking disrespectful to call it a "Zionist propaganda film". But then, I've seen plenty of posts on these threads implying, or even directly stating, that 7 October itself was a false flag exercise to give Israel the "excuses" it needed to do a land grab. People sneering about Israeli tanks and helicopters killing their own people. Gloating over the IDF's accidental shooting of the escaped hostages. It's sick.

Quite. To the extent that they won't even use the term Islamophobia now. They are total hypocrites.

And those people are wrong, you can’t hold every Israeli or Jewish person responsible for the actions of the Israeli government.

It really is. Horrendous

I know you are very sensible on this noble so if you are offended by what I'm about to say that's me being clumsy, not intentional.

I find there is no way to discuss what the Israeli government are doing without a direct or implied accusation of anti-semitism. It is there on this thread where there are multiple posters implying those of use that don't support Gove are taking that position because we are anti-semitic, rather than because of our issues with Gove/attacks on British democracy.

I would love one of the Jewish posters to explain to me how to criticise Netanyahu's government in such a way that some posters don't interpret that as anti-semitism. It seems impossible.

Maybe start by not doing it on a thread about antisemitism?

You're one of the people who won't let people discuss antisemitism without demanding condemnation of Israel. We had a big discussion about it?

I wonder why the Tory’s have chosen Michael Gove as their poster boy for antisemitism?

Is it, because of his history of speaking out for and supporting vulnerable groups and individuals? Because he has a track record of championing equal human rights?

Or is it because the more moderate and sensible members weren’t willing to make this sensitive issue about politics?