Terrible but not surprised - Jewish community under threat

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx0331xxd7xo

It appears Jews are not safe in the UK at all.

Can we seriously look at the impact of anti semitism now?

Agreed

I don't think I made myself clear, as English is not my first language, which hugely frustrating for me. The English language is very nuanced at time and obviously, I have failed here.
I found this really good ( I think) article which explains what I wanted to say. It also echoes what you wrote regarding the true meaning of Zionism.
I am indeed horrified that my post might be perceived as anti semitic. I am far from being this or racist in any shape and form. I find it abhorrent. I understand that these marches provoke strong feelings in the Jewish community and those feelings are real. I avoid town when the EDL marches (as any person of colour does) but I do not call for them to be banned because it is our democratic right to protest, hard earned right too.

Thank you - I don’t want you to feel horror or shame; just to listen and reflect, and you have done that - so I hugely appreciate your thoughtfulness.

I also strongly stand by the right to protest; as long as it is balanced alongside the rights of others to be safe.

What I don’t support is any movement or protest that promotes hatred and indirectly encourages or enables violence; which we can see is currently happening given the extreme rise in anti semetic violence as a result of these marches.

I think those marches legitimise people who might have otherwise not felt they could voice their feelings; and perhaps for others they didn’t set out to hate Jews but they’ve too easily /naively accepted as fact many of the false tropes about Jews and fake news and propaganda and come to legitimately see a whole group of people as ‘other’ and inhuman.

It’s losing sight of our shared humanity that is truly dangerous.

@Muthaofcats It’s losing sight of our shared humanity that is truly dangerous.

Couldn't agree more with this. Indeed it is truly dangerous.

“I don't think I made myself clear, as English is not my first language, which hugely frustrating for me. The English language is very nuanced at time and obviously, I have failed here.”
@Auvergne63 English is my first language and I still fail to get the nuances right on here 😣. That is such an elegantly phrased and thoughtful post

Yes we have the right to protest....but that doesn't mean we have the right to behave in any way we wish on marches or say absolutely anything without restraint. I'm not actually talking about any groups or marches in particular here, just a general point really.

I was reading about the Slovakian Prime Minister in the Guardian and I came across these wise words which I think are relevant to earlier discussions.

‘European politicians have warned of the groundwork for more likely violence being laid by rising polarisation in political discourse on both the left and the right.
In a statement, the liberal political group Renew said it was “increasingly alarmed by the rising polarisation within our political sphere fuelled by extremist ideologies, both left- and right-wing.”
This “climate of heightened division is laying the groundwork for an environment where acts of violence are more likely to occur, and also wrongly justified by those who seek to disrupt and dominate rather than engage and debate”, it added.’

How dare you call me and others mindless sheep.

Of course you would. Because we've been called cockroaches and human animals so mindless is restrained.

Perhaps you should read the whole thread. You might learn something about nuanced constructive discussion.

Don't be so patronising.

There goes the brief détente.

Hard to make peace with people spoiling for a fight. What is their endgame I wonder.

Their endgame is no Jews in the middle east and the end of Israel. That's what they are calling for with their mindless chants

Way to make a thread about the threat on Jewish population about you. How uncharacteristic for Pro-Palestinian supporters.

I mean words must hurt if you’re 5 years old but Jewish people are facing a real, violent threat. Do you have any idea how terrifying it is for Jewish people in the U.K. right now?

They want us to STFU.

I can understand that the marches make Jews who live in the area afraid, but I don’t think the marches are responsible for extreme terrorist threats. Marches by - in excess- are being undertaken by peaceful ordinary citizens and they cannot be held responsible for those with extremist views.

What I think will be the most powerful motivator is the images coming out of Gaza, and its impact on people who already feel estranged and vulnerable to indoctrination.

When I see the marches, I see people wanting to help Palestinians- it doesn’t make me feel anger about what’s happening in Gaza. I feel hopeful that people may influence our future government and that this may influence their policies towards ME in a meaningful way to promote a 2SS and peace. Military experts are saying Israel’s aim to eradicate Hamas is not going to work, but they need to sidelined and an alternative supported. This has not been Netanyahu’s policy towards Hamas. It would be great if we could also see people marching against deaths in the Congo and other places, although- other than in the Yemen, I have not seen our MPs condoning or supporting those responsible for the deaths- so not sure what the point of marching would be.

When I see images of endless children blown up/ burnt/ with lost limbs and their grieving families, I feel anger and sadness. Imagine what those images do to someone who is vulnerable to hold extremist views.

And no, I don’t think Jewish citizens should have to openly condemn Israel’s actions and I feel incredibly sad to hear armed vehicles are required to protect playing children. Just as I feel horror to see Palestinian children being killed whilst playing by IDF snipers. They are all innocent.

The issue is that extremism isn’t borne from nowhere. Extremism builds off of existing prejudices, and the more a prejudice builds (by not being called out, by being minimised and by being silenced entirely) the more this enables the extremism to build.

Anti-Semitic attacks have risen 250% worldwide and in 500% in some please, since October 7th. That’s not a coincidence. It’s almost acceptable as a result of the Hamas attack - and when hate towards a group becomes acceptable, it give extremists an ‘in’. It lets them build a network, have conversations about their hateful ambitions, and opens up safe space with people who will not challenge them.

The fact that the rise in anti-semitism is undoubtedly linked to the sudden surge of pro-Palestinian supporters tells me that those shooters are EXACTLY the people who should be checking their prejudices and calling out anti-semitism. There’s no reason at all they can’t do this whilst supporting Palestine if it is indeed not about hating Jewish people but supporting the people of Gaza.

We should call out antisemitic placards and chants. They are not acceptable. There has been a surge of support for Palestinians in Gaza, but the root cause of that is surely what is happening in Gaza? It’s human nature to sympathise with those suffering- just as I can sympathise with Jewish citizens feeling vulnerable at this time.

If the marches didn’t happen- are you saying that there would not be an appreciable threat to Jewish citizens outside of Israel? I think there would still be a significant threat- due to what is happening in Gaza and photos being shared widely on social media. I imagine a lot of the grooming of people vulnerable to extremism occurs online. Attending peaceful march in itself would probably not be seen as a significant risk of indoctrination (given the tens of thousands who have participated) whilst social media influences probably would be.

The rise in antisemitism was noted immediately after 7/10 - which is dreadful, and suggests underlying worrying antisemitism in the West - but this cannot be blamed on the marches?

The marches happen in large area which happen to be also places with relatively high Jewish population. It’s not purposeful, after all people can’t help that the London is the political heart of the UK and also has the highest population of Jewish people in the UK. But the ‘river to the sea’ chant calls for the extermination of Jewish people, Nazi placards being carried (and police doing nothing about it) and other hateful messages. Wether you mean to or not that DOES make Jewish people feel physically unsafe in their own city, and for reasons I stated earlier, there IS a direct link between the increase in anti-Semitic attacks and the rise in Pro-Palestinian support. And yes, the marches happening under the nose of Jewish people is part of that.
Im not saying don’t March. I’m saying when you do please be mindful of how this impacts Jewish people, how intimidating it can be when you KNOW a not insignificant number of people are on the March because they hate Jewish people, and the messaging it sends to regular British Jews (most of whom have no affiliation to Israel) who just want to go about their day.

I think the general undercurrent of anti semitism doesn't help when considering people becoming more extreme. I think the upswell of anger about Gaza leads those of unsound mind to think they are part of a righteous movement and there is a global enemy at play i.e. Jews. The build up of anger most some is looking for a release and as nothing can be done in terms of directly attacking the IDF then they may look for targets nearer to home and I would not be surprised this is the motivation here and I don't think it is beyond realistic to think this won't be the last attack.

I have said before for some anti semitism is an acceptable consequence for those that march for Gaza but we have to be clear sighted about the consequences of the hatred being built up. Nazi atrocities were built on the back of public protest against Jews so there may be a historical fee here.

I think the rather naieve students protesting at universities need to perhaps reflect if there is my correlation or causation between protest that allows anti semitism and the threat of terrorism.

At the end of the day there is no report of Jews committing or organising terrorist attacks against other ethnicities or religiions.

This is a disgusting statement.
Any form of hate crime is despicable, in the same breath calling people while are making a stand against genocide sheep is abhorrent.

Is it not meant to be never again for everyone?

It’s become apparent in the last few months that it isn’t unfortunately. We can call out antisemitism and the genocidal intent and actions of the Israeli regime at the same time.

Is it not meant to be never again for everyone?

Another classic that's thrown in our faces

I knew we should have played bingo

I've ticked 'genocide' on my bingo card.