Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

[TwilightSkies]

Where the hell are all the Palestinians meant to go now?
They were TOLD to go to Rafah, that Rafah was a safe place.
It’s just open extermination at this point.

That and the fact they don’t trust Israel to ever let refugees back into Gaza. Which is probably a fairly reasonable concern.

Hamas are firing rockets at aid being delivered

Alot of western news media outlets have misreported the attack as an attack on the crossing itself. It was not. It was in the Kerem Shalom area which is quite large. The crossing was un damaged, not hit. IDF has closed the crossing and cut off humanitarian aid in retaliation.

There was no aid being delivered where the rockets went:

”Egypt’s state-affiliated Al Qahera news TV has quoted an unnamed “high-level” source as saying that Sunday’s attack near the Karem Abu Salem (Kerem Shalom) crossing between Gaza and Israel had caused an impasse in the ceasefire talks.”

near…not at the crossing. Israel then closed the crossing…which was not bombed.

“Four IDF soldiers were killed and at least three others were seriously wounded after Hamas fired ten rockets toward the Kerem Shalom area along the Israel-Gaza border on Sunday afternoon.”

Kerem Shalom is also a kibbutz in the area
“Additionally, a home in Kibbutz Kerem Shalom was hit and damaged, according to the Eshkol Regional Council. No injuries were reported in the impact in Kibbutz Kerem Shalom.”
https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-799923

And it is quite possible to support Israel’s right to exist and expect their government and the IDF to not commit war crimes.

@ConnieCounter Hamas has just forced the closure of the kerem shalom crossing for humanitarian aid by firing rockets at it. Earlier it hijacked the first aid convoy through the new passage to the north. In recent days it has shot mortars at the humanitarian corridor , disrupted aid from going from north to south and prevented civilians from receiving humanitarian aid.

It's obvious to me who is at fault.

Two very different things. Nothing, but nothing, will threaten the right for Israel to exist after that, I am afraid.

In the meantime Netanyahu has been saying loud and clear that Palestinians already have their own State, Syria, and therefore did not need any territory in Palestine :(, since the 1970s.

@ConnieCounter so rude.... how old are you? It's factual. Jordan? Syria? Egpyt?

This is totally contrary to what multiple international agencies on the ground have reported.

@TrudyProud What special interest group are you talking about?

You're the one who believes Netanyahu's fairy stories 🤦‍♀️

No they haven’t. The crossing is undamaged, not one single rocket hit it. IDF closed the crossing in retaliation.
Read the article
https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-799923

The rest is not true either. The first aid convoys to the north were turned back by IDF. They continue to be stopped by IDF.

Imagine having to be told to give aid to the people you have been purposefully starving for the past 6 months. Imagine having to be told that you have to let innocent people evaluate before you blow up their homes. The whole thing is utterly disgusting. Having to be dragged in front of the ICJ and still not giving aid until they were threatened with having their money cut off by Daddy Warbucks Biden. I don't think I've ever seen anything as gross in my life as the determination Israel had to starve the innocent people that they have been bombing and denying healthcare to. It really showed that there is not a glimmer of humanity in the Israeli government.

Israel was told to put a contingency plan in place and safe evacuation.
They have.

The only ones who have seen the plan are the US and they said this on Friday:
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Friday said Israel had yet to present "a credible plan to genuinely protect the civilians who are in harm's way", and without such a plan Washington "can't support a major military operation going into Rafah."

I don't understand why Hamas are not blamed for persecuting their own civilians.

Hamas have been and still are, firing rockets constantly at Tel Aviv (which is rarely reported in the UK) from Gaza so should Israel just sit and let them attack?

Hamas absolutely are using their own people as human shields.

They were told to provide humanitarian aid.
They did.

No. WFP reiterated yesterday that Israel continues to block aid
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2024-05-05/un-accuses-israel-of-denying-gaza-aid-access-as-famine-takes-hold

Hamas steal the aid.
No evidence of this, but there is evidence of several massacres where IDF soldiers have fired on civilians getting aid, aid workers, aid warehouses and aid vehicles themselves.

WCK deaths
Flour massacres
UN warehouse strikes
Naval strike on aid lorry

@TextureSeeker imagine having a government who raped, murdered and pillaged and sits on billions in wealth whilst waving from another country all whilst the country you inflicted that on attempts to deliver you aid to prevent you from starving and is prevented from doing so by said government.

Imagine the glee they feel as any support that's offered is attacked and profiteered from. Whilst the WW (worthy westerners) club make it their sole issue that they take to the streets for. Ignoring lots of others, far worse situations, that luckily don't involve Jews.

And you still come out to support them, spit on murdered hostages, wander through the fence to join in and wonder why the hand of friendship is not extended? Hmmmm

Nothing to do with the fact that these ‘human shields’ are literally trapped in Gaza with Hamas by Gallant’s 7 month and counting siege of Gaza?

They refuse to make any concessions at discussions for release of the hostages.

That is true of both sides, Hamas want a real ceasefire, Israel wants to keep the war going. Neither is willing to concede.

They continue to hold hostages including children.

As does Israel. Civilians, including children, held with no charge of any crime and indefinitely under administrative detention are not legally detained by international standards.

You dont think that there is a middle ground between doing nothing and starving 2 million people, destroying 60% of homes leaving over 1 million or half of the population people homeless, decimating healthcare, killing around 15,000 children?

What about Israels illegal occupation, the blockade, all of the killing Israel have done prior to 7/10, all of the human rights abuses? Do you think Palestinians should just sit back and let that happen? Where is the blame from people like yourself and others for the persecution that Israel have doled out for decades?

@SummerFeverVenice except for those that Egypt profiteer from? Money talks and all that.

news.sky.com/story/the-price-of-freedom-the-company-making-millions-from-gazas-misery-13081454

The main players of Oct 7th that remain in Gaza have not been caught and rockets have been fired from humanitarian areas. Therefore Hamas has a presence in Rafah.

True, but they are also in Khan Younis- where IDF is telling civilians to evacuate to. As of last night, heavy fighting in Khan Younis:
https://www.qatar-tribune.com/article/121278/world/southern-gazas-khan-younis-faces-intense-night-of-israeli-air-strikes

Those are people smugglers.
That’s nothing to do with the Egyptian government.

Or you could just say that you agree, it was really wrong to try and starve 2million innocent people and Israel should never have had to be threatened to allow aid in. I'm sure you don't mean to but it comes across like you are trying to excuse the mass starvation of civilians.

There are two issues here.

I really question how anyone who isn’t antisemitic can show any support for Hamas. They got elected on a false promise of running Gaza for the benefit of the citizens , spent all the aid money building military tunnels and then abolished democracy. Their entire aim is to eradicate Jews, regardless of impoverishing their own people (except their cowardly leaders lead a life of safety and affluence in Qatar).

They are scum.

Their recent rockets near a recently opened food crossing point had one aim and one only, to bring the Israelis into Rafah and hopefully expand the conflict.

Israel had every right to go in and destroy them.

However, separate to this, Israel still need to abide by the rules of war and not conflate civilians with enemy combatants. Hamas are making that hard deliberately but they must still do it. They must also allow the Gazans sufficient food and allow hospitals to operate.

The endgame, though, surely, is to rebuild Gaza better than it was before and to allow aspirational citizens to work, achieve and trade with Israel. The only way for people to understand each other is through working together for mutual success, as Europe did after WW2.