Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

[TwilightSkies]

Where the hell are all the Palestinians meant to go now?
They were TOLD to go to Rafah, that Rafah was a safe place.
It’s just open extermination at this point.

AP live feed cameras back on - note AP is a US company and this may have been a bridge too far

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/israeli-officials-seize-camera-equipment-from-journalists-in-gaza

Thanks @EasterIssland i'd not seen that

I can't find a suitable thread for this but the Irish government are having a press conference tomorrow morning and it looks like they'll be formally recognising the state of Palestine.

Years after the parliament voted for it, nearly 10 in fact. Still, solidarity is important so it's a positive step at a time of immense hardship and turmoil for Palestinians.

So little good news @ConnieCounter you should post it on all the threads especially those with un-relenting bad news!!

US aid pier a 'distraction' and not working atm - small deliveries on Friday and Saturday [10/11 trucks] but none since after half of Saturdays delivery was looted - Pentagon working on better security

''The American Friends Service Committee says the failure of the US-built pier to get food to starving Gaza people so far shows it’s more imperative than ever to reopen the three established land crossings.

“The pier itself can only bring in 90 trucks a day. We need 500 minimum, more like 1,500, to meet the vast humanitarian need that exists in Gaza,” said Kerri Kennedy from the organisation, which has worked in Gaza for 75 years''.

This seems a bit overdue - Sullivan left Israel on Sunday and this is the first update maybe the talks on normalisation of relations w Saudia Arabia* were more productive than those about the invasion of Rafah

US official says Israel addressed Biden’s concerns on Rafah attack plans: Reports

A senior US official says Israel has addressed many of President Joe Biden’s concerns regarding the ongoing ground assault on Rafah, according to news agencies.

“It’s fair to say, I think the Israelis have updated their plans. They’ve incorporated many of the concerns that we have expressed,” the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, was quoted as saying.

The AFP and AP news agencies’ reports did not say if the official provided details of the changes the Israelis had made to their plans for the Rafah offensive, which has forcibly displaced more than 800,000 people. Most of those fleeing the city have gone to central Khan Younis and Deir el-Balah, where overcrowding and lack of water and sanitation services has resulted in “horrendous” conditions, according to UN officials.

Biden previously said he would not support an Israeli assault on Rafah – which had been sheltering more than 1.4 million people – without a plan to safeguard civilians.

*SA want 2 state solution and an end to the war so probably not

How many people are left in Rafah now? Does anyone know? If the IDF go into Rafah will that be the end of it? I don’t want them to go in and for more innocent people to die or lose their limbs, but I want this to be over now… yesterday… to never have started.

@PeasfullPerson

I see where you are coming from that once the IDF go into Rafah then effectively they have gone through all the major settlements searching for Hamas and hostages, so theoretically it should be over.

However I fear that Hamas will simply melt away into the civilian population only to reappear in another major settlement turning this into a destructive ongoing operation of Hamas whack a mole, with no end in sight other than continued civilian casualties. And how long would the US support such an ongoing protracted conflict.

It’s depressing isn’t it! If they go into Rafa and then they still haven’t achieved their goals (which they obviously won’t) then there can be no argument that their strategy is working. Surely nobody could agree to more of the same.

Just to be clear I do not want them in Rafa, I want them completely out of Gaza.

@PeasfullPerson there's estimated to be 600k people left in Rafah - on the more vulnerable side who couldn't leave

Saw earlier that US intelligence estimates that only 30-35% of Hamas fighters have been killed and 65% of tunnels remain and worse still they have been able to recruit thousands of new fighters in recent months

Well the options of what happens after Israel has searched Rafah are:
The Israeli forces leave and Hamas stays in control
The Israeli forces don't leave and end up in some kind of costly occupation (lives on both sides)
The PA are in control of Gaza backed by another country's military (except no country in their right mind would want to put troops into Gaza).
Hand it over to Egypt (except they don't want it)

It's almost as though Israel's decision to invade as they did was a terrible idea, in terms of civilian casualities and infrastructural destruction as well as in terms of Israel achieving their alleged goals. As we all said at the time.

@PeasfullPerson A ground offensive in Raffah will be a humanitarian catastrophe with no improvement in security for Israel and it puts the hostages at further ris of bombardment, shootings , starvation and diseases .

Hamas have reconstituted repeatedly in areas from which the IDF has pulled out. There are reports of Hamas starting garbage collection and running courts. A few weeks ago there was an article in the New York Times that said they were In smaller guerilla units of fewer men and Netanyahu has said it could take 10 years to eliminate them. There are hundreds of of tunnels for them to hide in, rubble, abandoned buildings, vulnerable civilians to terrorise and steal from.
Also, the breaking up of the terrorist group into small bands of undisciplined independent units not reporting to any authority doesn’t put the hostages in a better place, almost certainly the opposite

So when will Netanyahu be satisfied (he wants ten years!!) or will the US finally put their foot down and say enough is enough.

How long will the people in Gaza be expected to live like this.

@Kindatired Also, the breaking up of the terrorist group into small bands of undisciplined independent units not reporting to any authority doesn’t put the hostages in a better place, almost certainly the opposite.

Surely you don't think that the attackers on 7 October were "disciplined" ?

And who were they "reporting to" when they were driving around Gaza with the body of a female hostage in the back of a truck?

“Disciplined” like this, @Kindatired ?

@onegrumpyoldwoman I didn’t describe the attackers of 7/10 as “disciplined”
But it’s clear that it was a , planned organised and coordinated attack and Hamas was the organisation that planned , organised and coordinated it. So the perpetrators were accountable to these leaders.

Or do you think it was just a spontaneous thing that happened?

@PoloMum
The images you posted were released by hostage families to try to pressure Netanyahu into dialogue with Hamas about hostage release for ceasefire deal. The daily fail is just capitalising on their suffering to promote its own agenda
From todays’s New York Times

“The families of several Israeli female soldiers taken hostage during the Hamas-led attack on Oct. 7 released video of their abduction in an attempt to pressure the Israeli government to revive apparently stalled cease-fire talks that could pave the way for the captives’ release.”

I think that the Israeli authorities will be satisfied when they reach their goal - a goal that can only be something that we aren’t being told - like push the Gazan’s out of Gaza.

Otherwise from every point of view Rafah makes no sense. obviously it wlll kill and maim thousands of innocent civilians but it doesn’t seem to make sense for Israel’s stated goals either.

The US strongly stated that it won’t help them reach their military goals. I think the US wouldn’t have been against Rafah if it would genuinely take out Hamas - despite the civilian cost.

Update on Rafah

Israeli tanks advanced to the edge of a crowded district in the heart of Rafah on Wednesday during one of the most intense nights of bombardment of the southern Gaza city since Israel launched its offensive there this month. Residents and militants told Reuters that tanks had taken up new positions farther west than before along the southern border fence with Egypt. They said Israeli troops were now stationed on the edge of the Yibna neighbourhood at the centre of Rafah.

‘Congested mass of people living in deplorable conditions’

Suze van Meegan, the Norwegian Refugee Council’s emergency response leader in Gaza, says many civilians are trapped in western Rafah as Israeli troops fight their way towards them.

“The city of Rafah is now comprised of three entirely different worlds: the east is an archetypal war zone, the middle is a ghost town, and the west is a congested mass of people living in deplorable conditions,” she said in a statement.

ICJ orders Israel to halt Rafah military offensive

So?

Israel doesn't recognise the ICC, so the ICC can't order them to do anything.

Hamas were also told to give back the hostages immediately and that didn't happen.

Excellent
Thanks for the update