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Conflict in the Middle East

Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

986 replies

TwilightSkies · 06/05/2024 09:10

Where the hell are all the Palestinians meant to go now?
They were TOLD to go to Rafah, that Rafah was a safe place.
It’s just open extermination at this point.

OP posts:
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DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:10

EasterIssland · 07/05/2024 13:07

They can move to Egypt and easily move back once Hamas is taken out

——

will Israel allow them returning? It’s not allowed returning to previous Palestinians that have had to leave Gaza before. What makes you think they’ll allow it this time

Edited

YES they will and that is another fact

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:11

Umm Israel doesn’t allow Palestinians to return. It’s well documented.

The border between Israel and Egypt is militarised. There is no crossing in and out like you put it.

EasterIssland · 07/05/2024 13:11

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:10

YES they will and that is another fact

Not sure how can you be so secured when this hasn’t happened in the past. Fact

ps. Just because you write fact it doesn’t mean it’s fact

Scirocco · 07/05/2024 13:12

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:06

Bud - you having a naffing larf??
From the Rafah crossing, you just take one step and you are into Egypt
Why have the not moved to Egypt or the other three sectors of Rafah that the IDF have not instructed to evacuate???

I hope Hamas leaders are taken out very soon and hostages are released. Then the settlers in west bank are removed by the IDF.. The people of Israel could live without daily fears of rocket attacks, shootings, knifings, attacks etc. And the people of Gaza could live their lives

Hamas trousered the billions given by the west and Arab nations and the people of Gaza suffer because of that

On telly a while back - a few Gazanians were openly condemning Hamas about jobs for their own families whilst ordinary people of Gaza struggled - where did the billions go - you know the answer

If you follow the news, you may have seen several slight issues with the idea of just walking through the Rafah crossing.

For example, it's currently under Israeli control.

For example, the Egyptians aren't accepting significant numbers of refugees through it.

So, it's going to be a bit difficult for people to take that step.

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:12

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:10

YES they will and that is another fact

FFS it’s documented and well known Israel doesn’t allow it. The Palestinians that fled in 1975 have not been able to return.

Just because you say it, doesn’t mean it will happen.

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:15

@ConnieCounter ,

‘And what about the people of Gaza? They're the ones paying the price, with their lives.’

I don’t want you to think I am blasé, because I am not. I spent ten years of my life as a teacher and taught children of all colours, faiths and denominations. Every life is precious and every death of an innocent person is a tragedy.

But…..human beings fight wars and, in every war, innocent blood is spilled.

Israel defending herself is not, per se, wrong. But Israel does need to stick to the internationally agreed rules of law and, where she doesn’t, the people responsible need to be held to account.

But that isn’t a get-out-of-jail free card for Hamas. They need to be dismantled and the senior members need to personally pay the price for what they did.

Efacsen · 07/05/2024 13:16

The only way that large numbers of refugees from Gaza are going to leave and enter Egypt is if the IDF 'accidently' destroy enough of the border wall/fence

Can't imagine Egypt being happy with that

ConnieCounter · 07/05/2024 13:18

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:15

@ConnieCounter ,

‘And what about the people of Gaza? They're the ones paying the price, with their lives.’

I don’t want you to think I am blasé, because I am not. I spent ten years of my life as a teacher and taught children of all colours, faiths and denominations. Every life is precious and every death of an innocent person is a tragedy.

But…..human beings fight wars and, in every war, innocent blood is spilled.

Israel defending herself is not, per se, wrong. But Israel does need to stick to the internationally agreed rules of law and, where she doesn’t, the people responsible need to be held to account.

But that isn’t a get-out-of-jail free card for Hamas. They need to be dismantled and the senior members need to personally pay the price for what they did.

But Israel is committing war crimes every day? This isn't self defence. They're destroying civilian infrastructure and killing tens of thousands of civilians. They can't leave Gaza, they're being starved and denied basic services like sanitation, a safe place to stay, education etc. How is that self-defence?

It's not a war when it's one side bombarding a defenceless civilian population. Gazans don't have an army to protect them. They have nothing.

keenforhelp · 07/05/2024 13:19

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:06

Bud - you having a naffing larf??
From the Rafah crossing, you just take one step and you are into Egypt
Why have the not moved to Egypt or the other three sectors of Rafah that the IDF have not instructed to evacuate???

I hope Hamas leaders are taken out very soon and hostages are released. Then the settlers in west bank are removed by the IDF.. The people of Israel could live without daily fears of rocket attacks, shootings, knifings, attacks etc. And the people of Gaza could live their lives

Hamas trousered the billions given by the west and Arab nations and the people of Gaza suffer because of that

On telly a while back - a few Gazanians were openly condemning Hamas about jobs for their own families whilst ordinary people of Gaza struggled - where did the billions go - you know the answer

Telling it like it is to be sure.

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:21

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:15

@ConnieCounter ,

‘And what about the people of Gaza? They're the ones paying the price, with their lives.’

I don’t want you to think I am blasé, because I am not. I spent ten years of my life as a teacher and taught children of all colours, faiths and denominations. Every life is precious and every death of an innocent person is a tragedy.

But…..human beings fight wars and, in every war, innocent blood is spilled.

Israel defending herself is not, per se, wrong. But Israel does need to stick to the internationally agreed rules of law and, where she doesn’t, the people responsible need to be held to account.

But that isn’t a get-out-of-jail free card for Hamas. They need to be dismantled and the senior members need to personally pay the price for what they did.

Are you seriously going to use that argument. It sounds like I have black and Asian friends so I can say what I want.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:23

Efacsen · 07/05/2024 13:16

The only way that large numbers of refugees from Gaza are going to leave and enter Egypt is if the IDF 'accidently' destroy enough of the border wall/fence

Can't imagine Egypt being happy with that

Why does Egpyt want to help them into a safe zone??

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:23

This reply has been deleted

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Efacsen · 07/05/2024 13:25

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:23

Why does Egpyt want to help them into a safe zone??

It's been explained to you several times already so I'm not going to waste my time going over the same ground

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:32

@ConnieCounter ,

‘But Israel is committing war crimes every day? This isn't self defence. They're destroying civilian infrastructure and killing tens of thousands of civilians. They can't leave Gaza, they're being starved and denied basic services like sanitation, a safe place to stay, education etc. How is that self-defence?’

Destroying infrastructure isn’t a war crime if the purpose is to get to your enemy. It is , although I hate the term, ‘collateral damage’ and happens in every single war. The question is whether there is too much.

I have been sent articles by military historians saying that the IDF is fighting one of the most targeted and merciful wars given the nature of the terrain and enemy (urban theatre and Hamas using civilians as human shields). They cite the ratio of military to civilian dead and compare it to past battles.

I am not a military expert and I think some of the data they use is dodgy. But, equally, looking at pictures and saying Israel has done a terrible thing denies it true analysis or historical comparison.

My personal opinion (and this is total speculation) is that Israel tried to run a careful and targeted campaign but that some units have committed war crimes and deliberately targeted civilians. I can’t know any of this, though, and nor can anyone on this thread.

As to the lack of food and fuel at the beginning (I think it is getting better now), that does look like a war crime and it should be properly investigated.

Remember, though, Israel answer to the international community and especially the U.S. They know if they go too far, their vital support can be cut off. Hamas answer to no one bar their shady paymasters in Iran for whom the more carnage on both sides the better.

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:34

@eomeoni ,

‘Are you seriously going to use that argument. It sounds like I have black and Asian friends so I can say what I want.’

If you have a problem with what I say, kindly address the argument. Don’t go accusing me of racism when I am not racist and have never posted anything which is!

Pathetic.

Auvergne63 · 07/05/2024 13:35

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 12:58

Btw - only one section of rafah is being told to be evacuated

They can move to Egypt and easily move back once Hamas is taken out

Hamas is not helping anyone other than themselves.

Until Hamas and the Israeli leader is removed and hostages handed back, the ordinary people of Gaza and Israel will continue to suffer

I also urge that settlers are removed from the west bank

You do know Palestinians have no right to return?

ConnieCounter · 07/05/2024 13:37

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:32

@ConnieCounter ,

‘But Israel is committing war crimes every day? This isn't self defence. They're destroying civilian infrastructure and killing tens of thousands of civilians. They can't leave Gaza, they're being starved and denied basic services like sanitation, a safe place to stay, education etc. How is that self-defence?’

Destroying infrastructure isn’t a war crime if the purpose is to get to your enemy. It is , although I hate the term, ‘collateral damage’ and happens in every single war. The question is whether there is too much.

I have been sent articles by military historians saying that the IDF is fighting one of the most targeted and merciful wars given the nature of the terrain and enemy (urban theatre and Hamas using civilians as human shields). They cite the ratio of military to civilian dead and compare it to past battles.

I am not a military expert and I think some of the data they use is dodgy. But, equally, looking at pictures and saying Israel has done a terrible thing denies it true analysis or historical comparison.

My personal opinion (and this is total speculation) is that Israel tried to run a careful and targeted campaign but that some units have committed war crimes and deliberately targeted civilians. I can’t know any of this, though, and nor can anyone on this thread.

As to the lack of food and fuel at the beginning (I think it is getting better now), that does look like a war crime and it should be properly investigated.

Remember, though, Israel answer to the international community and especially the U.S. They know if they go too far, their vital support can be cut off. Hamas answer to no one bar their shady paymasters in Iran for whom the more carnage on both sides the better.

Well unless you're going to give me sources I can't comment on your pals' opinions that Israel is doing a great and super careful job.

I disagree with your opinion that they've been careful and targeted in the strongest terms. I'm not sure if we've been following the same conflict!

How have Israel been answerable to the international community? The US who funds their genocide told them not to go into Rafah and here we are. They don't give a shit about the international community. I'm amazed you think they do.

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Auvergne63 · 07/05/2024 13:42

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 07/05/2024 13:10

YES they will and that is another fact

Please check the definitions of opinion and fact. You appear to confuse the two.

Nctodayjan24 · 07/05/2024 13:43

Remember, though, Israel answer to the international community and especially the U.S. They know if they go too far, their vital support can be cut off. Hamas answer to no one bar their shady paymasters in Iran for whom the more carnage on both sides the better.

@Newbutoldfather
You ate joking aren't you with this comment. Biden and Us administration answer to Israel and AIPAC.

They will also never cut off their market for weapons.

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:43

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:32

@ConnieCounter ,

‘But Israel is committing war crimes every day? This isn't self defence. They're destroying civilian infrastructure and killing tens of thousands of civilians. They can't leave Gaza, they're being starved and denied basic services like sanitation, a safe place to stay, education etc. How is that self-defence?’

Destroying infrastructure isn’t a war crime if the purpose is to get to your enemy. It is , although I hate the term, ‘collateral damage’ and happens in every single war. The question is whether there is too much.

I have been sent articles by military historians saying that the IDF is fighting one of the most targeted and merciful wars given the nature of the terrain and enemy (urban theatre and Hamas using civilians as human shields). They cite the ratio of military to civilian dead and compare it to past battles.

I am not a military expert and I think some of the data they use is dodgy. But, equally, looking at pictures and saying Israel has done a terrible thing denies it true analysis or historical comparison.

My personal opinion (and this is total speculation) is that Israel tried to run a careful and targeted campaign but that some units have committed war crimes and deliberately targeted civilians. I can’t know any of this, though, and nor can anyone on this thread.

As to the lack of food and fuel at the beginning (I think it is getting better now), that does look like a war crime and it should be properly investigated.

Remember, though, Israel answer to the international community and especially the U.S. They know if they go too far, their vital support can be cut off. Hamas answer to no one bar their shady paymasters in Iran for whom the more carnage on both sides the better.

So you are going to compare the Gaza conflict to ones from other parts of the world where two military powers were fighting. Umm no there is no comparison.

The technological advancements in military warfare has improved greatly. What Israel is doing is dropping dumb bombs was reported by CNN.

Isreal is using AI to target houses reported in Haaretz. Even if there is one person in an entire complex which is part of Hamas Israel will bomb the complex killing many innocent people.

eomeoni · 07/05/2024 13:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Newbutoldfather · 07/05/2024 13:47

@eomeoni ,

‘Also all racists say I am not racist.’

No interest in getting into ad hominem mud slinging with you. If you attack the person rather than the argument, you know you have lost the argument.

It is also unusual to call a stranger from a minority group a racist without actually citing anything they have said which is racist.

But you clearly think you know my thoughts better than I know my own, so there you go…..