Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

[TwilightSkies]

Where the hell are all the Palestinians meant to go now?
They were TOLD to go to Rafah, that Rafah was a safe place.
It’s just open extermination at this point.

Thanks @SummerFeverVenice for posting these UN updates detailing the appalling situation in Rafah without added 'evacuations', bombardment and a land invasion

From an AJ journalist in Rafah

''Within the past hour or so, many injured people have arrived at Kuwaiti hospital. They are from the vicinity of the Rafah crossing, as well as from areas that were heavily bombed in overnight attacks on the eastern part of the city.

There’s a sense of chaos as people don’t have much trust in the Israeli narrative. They’re taking matters into their own hands. They’re going to areas that they think may provide some safety for them and their family members, but they realise there is no safe place in the entire Gaza Strip

And I am sick of those accusations of antisemitism and propaganda every time someone says the truth.

Those who criticised the war in Vietnam were not anti-american. Those who refused to close their eyes in the 1930s, and exposed what was happening in Europe were not anti-German, or anti-French (Vichy Government), those who exposed the Civil war under Franco were not anti-Spanish, those who fought against Mussolini's actions were not anti-Italian.

STOP shouting 'antisemitism' every time the truth is rtold about what is happening in Gaza. STOP, just STOP.

The antisemitic cause is served massively but those who stand by Netanyahu and the IDF in the current 'war'. This is not war- war has two sides. Genocide with intent, pure and simple. With every intention of taking over Gaza, and the West Bank, to finalise the illegal Israeli settlements and permanently exclude Palestinians from their own land. The world will NOT agree to this when this phony war ends.

The people who should be ashamed of themselves are the perpetrators of these atrocities and the people who support and enable them, either through action or inaction.

I feel the same. There is ample evidence of what the Israeli government/IDF have been doing to the Palestinians since October. The truth is out there for people to see. To be called antisemitic because we dare to criticise their actions is ,frankly, the last resort for people who can't argue with facts.
I also agree that this "war" has served the antisemitic cause no end.
I don't think Israeli citizens feel safer now than before 07/10.

"War does not determine who is right – only who is left"

This.

I've unfortunately seen videos of some of the victims of the latest "operation" by Israel.

A toddler, burned head to toe and screaming in agony and fear. Absolutely fucking disgusting that this happened to them. There's no aid getting in so presumably they will not receive proper medical attention (not to mention that Israel has destroyed most of the hospitals in Gaza). And this has happened to tens of thousands of children in Gaza. Not to mention the 14000 or so who've been killed. This is what people are supporting. Anyone who supports this has no humanity. My heart is broken.

Just hand back the hostages - and most of this will end right now

Id love to know how you’ve come to this conclusion….

❤️

And in the context of children we're talking INFANTS

And for the PP who said What Ceasfire re Oct 6th= Think About It. Think about actions and consequences, think about who you vote for, what you allow and what you stand for.

Think about who you are taught to hate from a young age.

The facts are clear - Hamas attacked cicillian men, women, children and babies and the rest is history

No country in the world would have stood idly by until the culprits were captured or eradicated

It is totally wrong to make an equivalence between the IDF/Israeli government and Hamas.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation with the unashamed aim of destroying all Jews.

‘This is evident in their founding charter, which cites the infamous Protocols of the Elders of Zion forgery as “proof” of a Zionist plot to control the world. It remains true after Hamas released a new charter in 2017, which essentially simply swapped the word “Jew” out and replaced it with “Zionist” while repeating antisemitic tropes.

Hamas abolished democracy in Gaza:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/

The above is a good article explaining why Hamas have always been a bad actor in Gaza.

The October attack wasn’t against a military target which incurred ‘collateral damage’, it was the purposeful planned raping, killing and hostage taking of civilians of all ages, many of whom were ‘peaceniks’.

As for Israel, they are a democratic nation and actually have Arab members of parliament. The idea of a Jewish politician within Hamas is just laughable.

Also, regardless of the background (Al Qaeda also thought they were fighting injustice on 9/11) no nation state on earth could have expected not to respond harshly to what happened on October 7th. You will also notice how quiet the Arab World was (ex Iran) in criticising Israel.

Finally, if Israel have a legitimate war aim of eliminating Hamas as a fighting force, they can’t just let them hang out in Rafah until such time as peace is agreed and then they can just reform and fight another day. It just isn’t realistic.

OTOH, I recognise Israel have some serious problems at the moment.

They have an illegitimate government and need elections as a matter of urgency. Also Netanyahu needs to face the criminal charges he is up against in a court.

They did, at least at the beginning of the war, use starvation and a denial of basic human rights (water and medical treatment) as a way of mass punishment, which is a war crime. However, they have recently toned this down (admittedly due to American pressure)

Israel is becoming increasingly a religious state and, with it, racism is increasing. The settlers are behaving disgracefully and the settlements should be dismantled.

Ultimately though, what Israel is these days will be decided after the fighting, not during it. If Netanyahu goes, they accept a two state solution and come to a compromise over the illegal settlements, then I will remain a Zionist (as much as believing the Jews have a right to a state and to be able to live safely within it). If not, I will have to distance myself and say ‘not in my name’.

But, right now, Hamas need to pay the price for their terrorist crime.

Rafah's main hospital al-Najjar is unable to admit patients as it is within the evacuated Israeli combat 'red zone' - meaning that the much smaller Kuwaiti hospital is becoming overwhelmed with casualties

The other hospital in Rafah - the Emirati is mainly a maternity unit

The main players of Oct 7th that remain in Gaza have not been caught and rockets have been fired from humanitarian areas. Therefore Hamas has a presence in Rafah.

They will never be caught. Israel has no interest in actually catching them. It would rather slaughter the entire population of Gaza because they view Palestinians as less than, and continue to use ‘Hamas’ and hostages as an excuse.
Why are Israeli hostages so much more valuable to you than the tens of thousands of Palestinian ones? Why is one life worth more than another to you?

So you're standing by your answer being 'Yes' to: 'So when Hamas did it, it was bad, but when Israel does it, nobody should say anything?' ?

And, on a slightly different note, I can see the way social media is polarising this debate.

I speak to two mates about this, one very pro Israel and one very anti, and all the ‘evidence’ seems to come from social media feeds. You would believe they were viewing two totally separate conflicts.

In the interests of humanity and the hope of getting a proper solution, I think it is important to get off social media (I know I am being a bit of a hypocrite here, although thankfully MN doesn’t have a ‘news’ feed) and read sources from both sides.

Btw - only one section of rafah is being told to be evacuated

They can move to Egypt and easily move back once Hamas is taken out

Hamas is not helping anyone other than themselves.

Until Hamas and the Israeli leader is removed and hostages handed back, the ordinary people of Gaza and Israel will continue to suffer

I also urge that settlers are removed from the west bank

If Israel does not want to negotiate a ceasefire and the release of the hostages, then hostages have become redundant. It is longer worth the effort of looking after them. Not a desirable outcome.

How do you propose people move to Egypt? Teleportation?

And also, no, they can't easily move back if they leave. Once the land is fully re-occupied, it's unlikely to be returned to them.

"They will never be caught. Israel has no interest in actually catching them. It would rather slaughter the entire population of Gaza because they view Palestinians as less than, and continue to use ‘Hamas’ and hostages as an excuse."

Please state your creditable and trustworthy source for this assertion.

Again I blame Hamas as they knew what the reaction would be to their slaughter of men, women and children in their homes as they slept.

I again blame Hamas for using their people as hostages to use them as human shields.

I again blame Hamas for not realising the hostages and handing over those responsible for the 7th Oct attacks

So when Israel commits horrible acts, nobody should say anything?

How can they move to Egypt?
Israel has taken control of the area inside the Rafah gate.

And what about the people of Gaza? They're the ones paying the price, with their lives.

Bud - you having a naffing larf??
From the Rafah crossing, you just take one step and you are into Egypt
Why have the not moved to Egypt or the other three sectors of Rafah that the IDF have not instructed to evacuate???

I hope Hamas leaders are taken out very soon and hostages are released. Then the settlers in west bank are removed by the IDF.. The people of Israel could live without daily fears of rocket attacks, shootings, knifings, attacks etc. And the people of Gaza could live their lives

Hamas trousered the billions given by the west and Arab nations and the people of Gaza suffer because of that

On telly a while back - a few Gazanians were openly condemning Hamas about jobs for their own families whilst ordinary people of Gaza struggled - where did the billions go - you know the answer

On the other side of the Gaza-Egypt border there is a town called Rafah City where more than 80000 Gazan refugees have been waiting 40 years to return to Gaza - so don't personally hold any hope that any refugees in 2024 will be able to return home after a few months sheltering in Egypt

.

They can move to Egypt and easily move back once Hamas is taken out

——

will Israel allow them returning? It’s not allowed returning to previous Palestinians that have had to leave Gaza before. What makes you think they’ll allow it this time