To say the London Palestinian marches should be stopped

[KarmaCaramello]

They are weekly marches found to be organised by organisations with links to Hamas, and at least one ex Hamas member.

They are supporting a terrorist organisation that has just committed the deadliest day in Israel’s history. An Iranian dissident was arrested for holding a sign saying Hamas is Terrorist, despite the fact that they are a UK-designated terrorist organisation - because protestors assaulted him on seeing the sign.

If they were calling for peace and fewer casualties they would be condemning Hamas and calling for them to surrender.

AIBU to think this is deeply disturbing and has no place on the streets of London. Note - terrorist support is illegal and not protected speech.

As someone non-Jewish, I share your disgust.

OP, it would have been interesting to see the voting on this thread if it was in the AIBU forum rather than this one, which has long been dominated by pro-Palestinian voices that do not permit dissent of any kind. Most people with any empathy for Israel's plight, and concern for the rise in antisemitism, gave up on these boards a while back.

I can't tell you why, as the video conveniently cuts off the beginning of their discussion. He says he will arrest him if he doesn't leave because he is antagonising people and breaching the peace. This is not a random Jewish man going for a walk and randomly encountering the protest on his route home as is being suggested. He is the CEO of campaign against antisemitism who has deliberately showed up with cameras asking to walk through the crowd. The police have to risk assess allowing him to do that considering it's obvious the intention is for there to be a confrontation caught on camera. I guarantee if someone shows up to the CAA march next week dressed in a shemagh with a camera man and asked to walk through the protest, the police aren't going to allow that either. Do you think they will?

The police officer didn't say he would antagonise people for being the CEO of campaign against anti-Semitism. He said it was because he's visibly Jewish. Even if he was there to cause trouble which is a big assumption on your part, that still doesn't make it okay that he was in danger for being visibly Jewish to the extent that the police would attest him before letting him put himself in danger.

But if victim blaming the Jewish man who can't go somewhere because he's Jewish makes you feel better about yourself then go ahead.

Wonder why he was attracting a crowd of protesters.
He's clearly not in Gaza so they have no reason to form a crowd around him.

Oh wait.

He is attending as a counter protest. I would also assume considering his own history of organising marches he is known to the police hence why they aren't buying his story that he's just walking home with this cameraman. The police never let counter protestors walk amongst eachother. He does not say he will arrest him for being Jewish anywhere in the video. He is told he will be arrested if he doesn't leave because he is breaching the peace and antagonising people. None of us can know the full extent of what was said unless he releases the full video which he has chosen not to for some reason just as it's a choice to not circulate the video with the context that he has deliberately attended to incite a situation on camera, which he did.

So rather than believe that he might be at risk for being openly Jewish, you've decided that the police officer was lying when he said he was at risk for being openly Jewish, and that he was there as a counter protest rather than going for a walk after synagogue as he claimed, that he was doing something bad before he started filming, that he had a professional camera even though it clearly looks like it was filmed on a phone. Based on absolutely fuck all except your sick desperation to pretend that there's no anti-Semitism happening.

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if you show up somewhere that you publicly accuse of being dangerous for Jewish people, it's not unreasonable for the police officer to tell you that in that case as you are openly Jewish surely it's not in your interests to argue that you want to walk into and through there especially when you have arrived with a cameraman to walk through a protest you publicly condemn.
I didn't say he was doing something bad. I said the video is clearly cut when it opens in that we start mid interaction and keeps cutting which is odd and disjointed? I said he is told he will be arrested if he continues to breach the peace.
It is very clearly not filmed on a phone and it's obviously not been uploaded unedited. Why if he has already publicly spoken out against the marches and are organising your own counter match do you think I'm being unreasonable to not believe he is casually walking home and happens to encounter the protest? Why if the issue was so clear cut does the video not show the entire conversation? Why, when he has a public presence on social media for example, is the video to circulating as an unnamed "Jewish man" instead of mentioning his name and organisation? And why on earth regardless of anything would anyone try and walk through a march? 🥴 I'm not basing anything on fuck all. You're the one applying not critical thinking here. I'll ask again if someone shows up in a shemagh with a cameraman at his protest next week will be allowed to walk through the crowd? If they're denied, will you renounce it as Islamophobia or will you say that person was trying to cause drama?

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if you show up somewhere that you publicly accuse of being dangerous for Jewish people, it's not unreasonable for the police officer to tell you that in that case as you are openly Jewish surely it's not in your interests to argue that you want to walk into and through there especially when you have arrived with a cameraman to walk through a protest you publicly condemn.

WTF does that even mean. The police officer said that he would not be safe to walk through as he's openly Jewish. Your determination to make that somehow his fault is disturbing.
As for why the footage started in the middle of the conversation, well I'd assume that that's when someone got out their phone and started filming. Maybe on a phone. Which seems statistically more likely than him being followed by a professional cameraman (not sure why it has to be a man) with a professional camera which isn’t any better quality that something filmed on a phone. But then I don't assume nefarious intent from every Jewish person who goes for a walk.

Why, when he has a public presence on social media for example, is the video to circulating as an unnamed "Jewish man" instead of mentioning his name and organisation?

Yeah, it’s not like it was posted on the Campaign Against Antisemitism twitter account with the logo in the corner and clips of him explaining what he was doing. Must be a conspiracy.

I'll ask again if someone shows up in a shemagh with a cameraman at his protest next week will be allowed to walk through the crowd? If they're denied, will you renounce it as Islamophobia or will you say that person was trying to cause drama?

If the police said that they are openly Muslim and that could antagonise the crowd then yes I would think Islamophobia was involved.

A Jewish man was threatened with arrest near a Palestine march as police said he was ‘openly Jewish’ and they therefore could not guarantee his safety. Link

@KarmaCaramello
They are weekly marches found to be organised by organisations with links to Hamas, and at least one ex Hamas member.

Where is your proof?

What some random cop thinks is not the protestors fault, nor reason not to protest civillians being bombed to fragments in their own homes.

Some of you are talking up aggression to try to justify stopping the marches, for your own reasons. The only aggression I've seen when passing a demonstration a couple of months ago was from groups of middle aged male Reform types roving around and clearly looking for trouble. The march was silent, actually. A lot of the arguments are just spin.

The "random cop" thought that he was at risk from the protestors, so it kind of is.

I find it very telling that the pro Palestinian protesters NEVER see any expression of anti Semitic behaviour whilst on their marches, yet bear witness to every small oppositional infraction. Interesting.

I'll say the same thing again - If you attend somewhere that you have already publicly condemned as unsafe for a Jewish person, I don't think it's unreasonable for a police officer to tell you that in that case they aren't going to allow you to walk through it as a visibly Jewish person. You've already said you find it unsafe. The police are there to de-escalate situations and it's very clear by walking through a march you are a potential escalation especially when you have publicly condemned the marches and you are ignoring police orders to not walk through. It was claimed he was treated to be arrested because he was Jewish and I pointed out that it does not say that in the video.

But then I don't assume nefarious intent from every Jewish person who goes for a walk
Neither do I?! I do use some critical thinking when I see a video that's clearly been edited and filmed on a high quality camera that isn't a phone especially by someone with this man's affiliations and his public opposition to the marches. I would do the same in any other scenario.

Oh it on the CAA twitter account I know, but it circulated in the media first without his name or organisation which is odd as it's obviously their own footage which they've provided to the media. So why not provide that context? I notice that outlets are now updating it with this info.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why anyone would walk through a march? 🥴 I've literally never. I've always either taken a detour or waited until the crowds pass which is what he was asked to do and he was refusing.

The police didn't say "you're not safe because you've publicly condemned it as unsafe", they said "you're not safe because your openly Jewish". The issue isn't with the police it's with the people who he would be in danger from.

The video has the CAA logo in the corner and an explanation in-cideo as to what happened. If other outlets have removed that then that's down to them.

And I don't see why it matters why he was trying g to go through the march. Why is your response to someone who could ot safely go somewhere because they are Jewish to say "well why do you want to go there anyway?"

You're determined to invent a conspiracy around this man and its really disgusting.

No he doesn't say that either! I didn't even claim he said "you're unsafe because you've publicly claimed it was unsafe". Someone asked me why he said that and I said we don't know because the video doesn't show the proceeding sentence - however, I can assume if you're already publicly declared the marches unsafe and are known to the police for having those reservations AND you're insisting on crossing to walk through a protest then it's not unreasonable to think he was saying it in that context. Perhaps he could just release the footage to clarify, I'm sure it would help instead of this weird disjointed edit.

It hugely f*cking matters! As I said the police have a job to deescalate and keep everyone safe when they're policing a march. It's not safe anyway to walk into a march going the opposite direction let alone one you publicly condemn.

No I am not. People including this man are sharing this video to spread the conspiracy of "no go zones" in London and that a Jewish man was threatened with arrest just for being Jewish. It wasn't shared in this thread with any information about who the man is and why he was there and I happen to think that's relevant and it's not untrue? So I'm not sure why you have an issue with it being pointed out.

The man, for whatever reason, wanted to cross the protest. The police officer said he can't because he might antagonise the crowd because he's openly Jewish. You say that it's his fault because he had a camera man with him (no evidence of this), he's a member of CAA and he's trying to hide this (the logo is on the video), something might have happened before he started filming (conjecture), the video is misleadingly edited (again, no evidence), that he's complaining about being arrested for being Jewish (he didn't claim this and actually says he doesn't blame the police officer in the video) and whatever other bullshit you're going to make up next because you'd rather believe a sick little conspiracy about the Jewish man from the big bad CAA manipulating things rather than think for half a second that actually there might be anti-Semitism happening.

To use my football analogy again, a Millwall fan could walk round most of London most of the time without people batting an eyelid, but if he walked around Stratford on a Saturday afternoon wearing his gang colours he's basically saying come and have a go if you think you're hard enough and the likelihood of him inviting trouble is increased. Many of the type of people who outwardly express their gang affiliations do so because they're saying my gang is better than your gang. They lack something in themselves because they need to be part of a homogenous group rather than free thinking individuals which leads to a gang mentality and often violence.

You think someone wearing a kippah is expressing gang affiliation?

What makes any organisation that has regalia and ceremonies not "a gang", out of interest ?

The word gang, particularly on the way the PP used it, has certain connotations as I'm sure your aware. I'd hope most people would agree that Judaism is not a gang.

“They are weekly marches found to be organised by organisations with links to Hamas, and at least one ex Hamas member.”

Can you link to proof of this? Such as banning of the organisations you say have links to Hamas and name along with report of arrest of the ex-Hamas member as well as proof of them being an organiser?

I found online that the six groups organising the marches are:
Stop the War
Palestinian Forum in Britain
Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND)
Muslim Association of Britain (MAB)
Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC)
Friends of Al-Aqsa (FOA)

Is this a joke

Random cop needs to attend diversity training on antisemtism and islamaphobia as his two prejudices collided into him treating the Jewish man appallingly.