To be worried about the effects on British society of the conflict in Gaza

[mids2019]

Everyone is aware of the conflict in Gaza and we are delivered information on a daily basis through a range of online media.

I personally think there is an immense human tragedy here and the reporting on the whole is responsible. However I think we must realise in reality we fundamentally can't change the actions of foreign states but governments when appropriate can exert diplomatic pressure. Ultimately the US is the biggest geopolitical player when it comes to Israel.

I do think we have to be conscious of effects within or society in the UK about the prolonged deep feeling about this conflict including rising anti semitism and Islamaohibia. I feel it is very important to maintain community relations within a diverse country and I fear the polarisation brought in some parts of so sorry brought on by the Gaza conflict has a direct and maybe permanent impact on the community ties that bind us in the UK.

I think we have to remember we are all citizens of the UK and we live in a democratic state whose aim on an international level is to act on our interests forging alliances with friends and allies in the world. Israel is an ally of the UK and independent of the current crisis we will have trade and military ties with this partner state.

We have a record of welcoming historically welcoming both Jews and people from majority Muslim countries into the country and I would hate to think that the inflamed feeling about a foreign war leads to permanent division in the UK.

I feel we polarize society into 'Pro palestine' and 'pro Israel' at some level of our identities and these divisions may become permanent given the length and intracractibility of the conflict.

What can be done to make everyone feel safe in this country as far as possible and bond us in terms of being UK citizens in a global community?

Very good point. I foresee more divisive political parties like reform UK gaining big wins in the next election. There have also been recent attempts for the party of Islam to register with the electoral commision and although this has been rejected on the basis of unclear finances, I believe the Muslim party uk is still set to launch. I don't think sectarian politics will help bind communities together, which in the light of what's happening in gaza/ Israel, is what we need more than ever right now.

@BerryMess

I completely agree which is why I think we have to view the Isarel Gaza conflict as a conflict between a state and a nascent state and not focus overly on religion. I think if we look at the broad reasons for conflict between Israel and other states we can't discount religion as it is no coincidence Israel wa s founded in the 'holy land' with Jeruslam, the physical confluence of 3 religions at its heart but bringing religion into the broad reasons for conflict is itself problematic.

we have a diverse community within the UK and I am sure that there are nefarious parties that wish to pit this conflict as Mulsim v non Muslim and I think we should aim to prevent this.

I think we have to promote t the fact Britain as a state is not 'anti Muslim' and argue that Britain's continued relations with Israel are not founded as some egregious attempt to fight against a particular religion.

I think there is a possibility many of the 200 000 that march in support of the Palestinian people do in some measure have shared religion as a source of empathy and we should be conscious of that and it's implications for the UK.

By having a continued focus on Gaza we could exacerbate tensions in our own communities to an extent where it becomes difficult for a Muslim child to interact in good faith with a Jewish one and this is something I fervently wish we can avoid.

I also think that when Hamas launched its attack they were fully aware of how the conflict would pan out from an international observers perspective so we must be careful not to fall for a narrative they wish.

We don't wish Muslims in this country to feel that interacting with Jews is somehow a betrayal or Jews are so scared they become isolated and hide their religious heritage. We should not embolden those that would malign Muslims either in terms of superficial sharing of the same religion as the Hamas attackers on October 7th.

I get what you are saying but history has also told us not to ignore genocide.

There is a very strong anti-Muslim sentiment in many areas of society and government. So it would be inaccurate in the eyes of many to promote the current government and society as being 'not anti-Muslim'. To attempt to do so would be to disregard the lived experiences of many people.

Hamas has expressly said on many occasions that they won't stop until the Jews are exterminated. What are we supposed to do with that? Just let them?

@Scirocco

I think therein lies the rub.......

we wish in the UK to have harmonious community relations and I think as a UK citizen we should be vigilant about any issue which may lead to distrust amongst our communities. The UKs position with regard to Israel is not anti Muslim but simply an alignment with a long term ally whose existence the British were partly responsible for. We cannot escape history.

News do not have Muslims and vice versa (and I fervently wish this to be the case). We need to do everything in our power to combat this narrative as it effects us in the UK.

I think we have to remember we are all citizens of the UK and we live in a democratic state whose aim on an international level is to act on our interests forging alliances with friends and allies in the world. Israel is an ally of the UK and independent of the current crisis we will have trade and military ties with this partner state.

And this is more important to you than the fact that it is very likely that your country is aiding and abetting war crimes breaking International law?

I'm not in the UK I have no skin in the game but I was wondering earlier how 3 British citizens being killed whilst on a humanitarian mission to feed people who are being starved to death has gotten fuck all reaction on mumsnet. When the news last night suggested that an Irish citizen was killed Irish forums were ablaze with 'our government needs to act now' but 3 British citizens are killed and crickets....

The UK is complicit in war crimes, stopping this is where the urgent attention of every single British citizen should be. How on earth can you expect there not to be 'tensions' when your government is complicit in the deaths of your citizens and the family and friends of your citizens.

@PurpleChrayn it is very disingenuous to quote the 1998 charter rather than the 2017 one.

Imagine reading your post being trapped in Gaza. You lost your family members and your children are starving.

How would you feel about the country and its people being diplomatic about the genocide that is affecting you. Especially if their country supply weapons.
I guess it's down to how empathetic you are.

@PurpleChrayn

obviously not and Israel are well within their rights to defend themselves and this is well recognised under international law. Israel are prosecuting a war against a terrorist organisation which as you say has avowed the elimination of Israel. Israel as a state will use all military means to defend itself as we currently see.

I think my concern is the UK and how a foreign conflict impacts on our own society and how we prevent foreign grievance from polarising society. I think religion is being used as a means of charging the hostility which spreads to other nations.

People's experiences of Islamophobia in the UK are not actually solely because of the Israel -Gaza conflict. We've experienced hate and discrimination for a long time before this.

Israel is an ally of the UK and independent of the current crisis we will have trade and military ties with this partner state.

I guess it's a question of what do you value more? If trade and military ties are more important to you than you can pretend you don't see people getting killed and starved to death in another country

What do you mean by "therein lies the rub" in this particular case, @mids2019 ?

@mids2019 you speak an awful lot of sense. I despair honestly. I don't think I've ever felt such a sense of division within the UK than I do right now. And there are sectarian political parties waiting in the wings ready to capitalise on the division - George Galloway anyone!? But what is the answer? For many (myself included) religion plays very little part in my identify but for others it defines their existence and informs their thinking. Neither are wrong but whereas before we could celebrate our differences or agree to disagree, nowadays this feels almost impossible . I don't want to sound horribly pessimistic but I think there's a long hard road ahead for Britain.

@BerryMess things do feel very divided at the moment. It feels like this conflict, on top of the pain caused by the actual humanitarian crisis, has given a green light to people to just be openly hateful and prejudiced.

Before this, I did quite a bit of inter-faith work. Most of that has fallen apart now, due to a withdrawal of funding and a lack of desire from other people to continue it. It is considered more acceptable than ever to verbally and physically abuse people on the basis of their perceived faith. There are yet more efforts to remove 'undesirable' voices from discussions. The far-right has become rather centrist on the new political spectrum.

And people are genuinely afraid for what the future holds for their families.

I am more concerned about threat of terrorist attack on British soil rising rapidly because of British government being complicit

I find that people generally are becoming very entrenched in their views and unwilling to listen to anything that might challenge them.

If one of our allies is committing genocide, it is time to drop them.

"By having a continued focus on Gaza we could exacerbate tensions in our own communities "

OP, I hope you aren't suggesting that news organisations should cease to shine a spotlight on what the israelis are doing.

They have half a million people penned in and are starving & bombing them because of the actions of a few. They are committing genocide.

I'm not particularly supportive of either side. In many ways they are each as bad as the other, but Israel's recent actions and the UK's tolerance of those actions have provoked a disgust in me that I have seldom felt before.

I agree with you OP, being concerned by a foreign war is understandable. Allowing it to disrupt relationships between communities is another, Jews and Muslims living in the UK are not responsible for the actions of any parties in the region and should not be made to feel they have to account for them.

Governments don’t act “morally” they act in a way that builds a web of influence and leverage so they can trade and co-ordinate with other countries in a way that benefits them directly. If the government only had relations with countries that have a completely clean bill of health in terms of moral action we’d probably only be talking to sweden or something.

Surely whether you are Muslim or Jewish, you can recognise war crimes taking place when you see them.

We have sanctions against Putin and Russia. Long overdue to bring in sanctions against Israel.

I live in a Muslim community and they are extremely upset about Gaza, it comes up often even with the kids after school.

However it also comes up with atheist friends as well. Look at the killing of the World Central Kitchen crew - the front page of the Daily Mail asks was it a war crime?

A much wider swathe of the UK public are wondering if we should be Israeli allies given the current Israeli government's actions.

@mids2019

There has been massive division in the UK since the Brexit referendum and due to 14 years of Tory rule. I think this thread and another one you have started recently are more to do with you trying to silence debate and criticism of Israel as opposed to any real concern for cohesion in Britain. You keep talking about your concern about division but your threads are creating just that.

The UKs position with regard to Israel is not anti Muslim but simply an alignment with a long term ally whose existence the British were partly responsible for. We cannot escape history.
And many don't want the UK allied with Israel these aren't immovable positions and public pressure can help with that.

Israel are well within their rights to defend themselves and this is well recognised under international law. Israel are prosecuting a war against a terrorist organisation which as you say has avowed the elimination of Israel. Israel as a state will use all military means to defend itself as we currently see.
This is your true position, you obviously support the current conflict and Israel's response and are continually trying to silence those that don't by claiming you care about community relations and they are stirring things up.

I think there will always be issues that divide us and keeping our society civil is an ongoing issue.

We need to call out inflammatory language.
We need to call out misinformation.
We need to stand up for minority groups who are being shouted down
We need to show compassion for people whose views we don’t agree with.