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Conflict in the Middle East

Killing of 5 Foreign Aid Workers from the World Central Kitchen

404 replies

cherryjamontoast · 01/04/2024 23:33

I've just seen on social media graphic videos of 5 dead aid workers from Australia, Austrian and British. The WCK are the people responsible for the ships coming into Gaza at the Jetty to distribute food. This was the second ship that departed from Cyprus a few days ago. Once arriving at the jetty they had to distribute the food. They were targeted in an armoured vehicle in Deir el Balah by the IDF. Its now being pick up by the press.Very sad.

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TextureSeeker · 03/04/2024 12:27

BigFatLiar · 03/04/2024 12:06

Killing friendly forces is just a feature of conflict. During the Iraq war US forces targeted British troops despite them having the correct identifiers.
Miscommunication happens it may have been as simple as mis identification.

The problem is that this is part of a pattern of behaviour. According to the Aid worker security database 260 aid workers were killed across Gaza and the West Bank last year and 60 this year so far.

This latest attack isn’t something that happened in isolation. There has been a pattern of attacks against humanitarian aid operations and facilities as well as medical workers and facilities throughout this conflict. This isn't the first aid convoys Israel have attacked. These are far, far from the first aid workers Israel gave killed.

Are we just to believe that Israel are the most incompetent army in the world and that is why they are breaking all of the worst records? Israel themselves count their military as one of the best in the world in the world, so why are all of these atrocities happening again and again and again. Is it ethical for the UK to sell arms to a country that clearly(if we are to believe these are all accidents) doesn't know what it is doing. What about all of the civillians that are being effected by this clear incompetence.

Israeli forces don't know what aid convoys look like(even though they are informed where and when they will be happening), they don't know where the aid facilities are(even though they are informed), they don't even know what white flags mean. There is something seriously wrong happening and the UK, the US, Germany etc are not just providing the arms for this to happen they are profiting from it.

Silence1 · 03/04/2024 13:01

TextureSeeker · 03/04/2024 12:27

The problem is that this is part of a pattern of behaviour. According to the Aid worker security database 260 aid workers were killed across Gaza and the West Bank last year and 60 this year so far.

This latest attack isn’t something that happened in isolation. There has been a pattern of attacks against humanitarian aid operations and facilities as well as medical workers and facilities throughout this conflict. This isn't the first aid convoys Israel have attacked. These are far, far from the first aid workers Israel gave killed.

Are we just to believe that Israel are the most incompetent army in the world and that is why they are breaking all of the worst records? Israel themselves count their military as one of the best in the world in the world, so why are all of these atrocities happening again and again and again. Is it ethical for the UK to sell arms to a country that clearly(if we are to believe these are all accidents) doesn't know what it is doing. What about all of the civillians that are being effected by this clear incompetence.

Israeli forces don't know what aid convoys look like(even though they are informed where and when they will be happening), they don't know where the aid facilities are(even though they are informed), they don't even know what white flags mean. There is something seriously wrong happening and the UK, the US, Germany etc are not just providing the arms for this to happen they are profiting from it.

Exactly, it is a pattern of behavior as illustrated by Channel 4 news last night.

Polka83 · 03/04/2024 14:38

1dayatatime · 03/04/2024 10:24

@Desertrose2023

Even Israel aren’t claiming it was accidental. They said it was a “mistake”. The nature of the 3 strikes makes it clear it was intentional to target the vehicles. The mistake (if you believe them, which nobody does) was that they thought there was a mysterious “Hamas member” in the convoy. If you follow that logic through, what they’re actually saying is killing the 7 aid workers is only a mistake because they were wrong about Hamas being there. If the person they had wanted was in the convoy the aid workers would have just been collateral damage and to blame for their own deaths.

You are right that "mistake" would be better wording than "accidental" which might imply someone accidentally pushed a big red button somewhere.

Yes it is a fact that there were three separate attacks on three separate vehicles and as such these three vehicles were intentionally targeted.

The opinion is why were they targeted.

Now an opinion on these facts is that this is proof that the IDF were deliberately targeting these aid workers to kill them.

An alternative opinion on these facts is that the IDF mistakenly thought the three vehicles were three Hamas targets which is why they attacked three vehicles. As to why such a mistake could happen then this maybe down to confusion , middle of the night etc or incompetence.

There is no way to unequivocally show it was deliberate or mistaken and to be honest even if you could show this with hard facts then one side of the ideological divide would still deny it.

Here is passage from an Israeli newspaper that refers to IDF sources-which suggests that the attack was intentional- and not due to lack of awareness of the cars belonging to WCK:

« Meanwhile, on Tuesday evening, the Haaretz daily spoke to unnamed military sources who revealed that the cause of the strike was undisciplined, rogue commanders, not a lack of coordination between the IDF and the WCK.

A source in the intelligence branch told Haaretz that the IDF’s Southern Command “knows exactly what the cause of the attack was: in Gaza, everyone does as they please.”

Army regulations require final approvals from division commanders or those above them before strikes can be carried out on sensitive targets such as aid convoys.

But in Gaza, “every commander makes his own rules” and his own interpretation of the rules of engagement, the source told Haaretz, which said it wasn’t clear whether the strikes on the convoy ever received final approval.

The intelligence source noted the IDF decision to establish a new coordination hub between COGAT — which facilitates aid delivery for Israel — and Southern Command but insisted that this wouldn’t solve the problem, as similar centers already exist.

“It has no connection to coordination… You can set up another 20 administrations or war rooms, but if someone doesn’t decide to put an end to the conduct of some of the troops inside Gaza, we’ll see more incidents like this,” the source told Haaretz. »

This does suggest the IDF sources believe an intentional targeting of the WCK by rogue commander within the IDF and therefore not a delusional conclusion?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-sorry-as-details-emerge-of-strike-that-picked-off-gaza-aid-cars-one-by-one/amp/

EasterIssland · 03/04/2024 14:47

Israeli Army Sources: Gaza Aid Workers Killed Because 'IDF Officers on the Ground Do What They Want'The IDF and defense ministry claimed that the aid workers' killing resulted from poor coordination. Israeli army sources later refuted their claims, saying the incident has 'no connection to coordination' and was caused by the fact that 'every commander sets the rules for himself'

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-sources-gaza-aid-workers-killed-because-officers-on-the-ground-do-what-they-want/0000018e-a06e-d9c2-afbe-a8fe319b0000

IDF sources: Gaza aid workers killed because 'officers on the ground do what they want'

***

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-sources-gaza-aid-workers-killed-because-officers-on-the-ground-do-what-they-want/0000018e-a06e-d9c2-afbe-a8fe319b0000

NigelHarmansNewWife · 03/04/2024 14:52

The IDF is supposed to protect aid workers and the humanitarian organisations share their whereabouts with them for this purpose. As far as I can see, the IDF is then using the coordinates to target them all the while claiming that aid is going to Hamas not the general population and saying "sorry". This doesn't make it right. It's appalling and quite possibly aimed at making humanitarian groups pull out.

Saschka · 03/04/2024 14:55

EasterIssland · 03/04/2024 14:47

Israeli Army Sources: Gaza Aid Workers Killed Because 'IDF Officers on the Ground Do What They Want'The IDF and defense ministry claimed that the aid workers' killing resulted from poor coordination. Israeli army sources later refuted their claims, saying the incident has 'no connection to coordination' and was caused by the fact that 'every commander sets the rules for himself'

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-02/ty-article/.premium/idf-sources-gaza-aid-workers-killed-because-officers-on-the-ground-do-what-they-want/0000018e-a06e-d9c2-afbe-a8fe319b0000

Oh that’s convenient for the IDF isn’t it? “Just a few bad apples”. No need to take any action then, just one of those things.

edited for typo

Auvergne63 · 03/04/2024 19:05

I have pinch this for another social media. I think it is pretty accurate.
A quick guide to Israel’s PR methods:

  1. We haven’t heard reports of deaths, will check into it;
  2. The people were killed, but by a faulty Palestinian rocket/bombs
  3. OK we killed them, but they were terrorists;
  4. OK they were civilians, but they were being used as human shields;
  5. OK there were no fighters in the area, so it was our mistake. But we kill civilians by accident, they do it on purpose;
  6. OK we kill far more civilians than they do, but look at how terrible other countries are!
  7. Why are you still talking about Israel? Are you some kind of antisemite?
Alaina7 · 03/04/2024 19:11

Auvergne63 · 03/04/2024 19:05

I have pinch this for another social media. I think it is pretty accurate.
A quick guide to Israel’s PR methods:

  1. We haven’t heard reports of deaths, will check into it;
  2. The people were killed, but by a faulty Palestinian rocket/bombs
  3. OK we killed them, but they were terrorists;
  4. OK they were civilians, but they were being used as human shields;
  5. OK there were no fighters in the area, so it was our mistake. But we kill civilians by accident, they do it on purpose;
  6. OK we kill far more civilians than they do, but look at how terrible other countries are!
  7. Why are you still talking about Israel? Are you some kind of antisemite?

This would be funny if it wasn’t so serious.

Parkingt111 · 03/04/2024 19:40

Celebrity chef Jose Andres has accused Israel of targeting aid workers "systematically, car by car" in Gaza.
Mr Andres, who founded the World Central Kitchen, claims the Israeli military knew the charity's movements on the day of the airstrike which killed seven workers.
He said it was not a "bad luck situation where, 'oops,' we dropped the bomb in the wrong place".
"Even if we were not in coordination with the [IDF], no democratic country and no military can be targeting civilians and humanitarians," he added

Auvergne63 · 03/04/2024 19:41

Alaina7 · 03/04/2024 19:11

This would be funny if it wasn’t so serious.

My exact thought. I did hesitate before posting though.

Parkingt111 · 03/04/2024 19:41

Parkingt111 · 03/04/2024 19:40

Celebrity chef Jose Andres has accused Israel of targeting aid workers "systematically, car by car" in Gaza.
Mr Andres, who founded the World Central Kitchen, claims the Israeli military knew the charity's movements on the day of the airstrike which killed seven workers.
He said it was not a "bad luck situation where, 'oops,' we dropped the bomb in the wrong place".
"Even if we were not in coordination with the [IDF], no democratic country and no military can be targeting civilians and humanitarians," he added

Apart from asking for clarification on the matter are the UK government taking any other steps?

Silence1 · 03/04/2024 20:20

@Parkingt111 there is pressure on them to ban arm sales which is more symbolic than anything else. But I think it may also be because the UK lawyers have supposedly said Israel is breaking International law.

“Given that we’ve seen three British citizens – all of them ex-forces – killed in what is, at best, a negligent manner I think that we really need to reassess our supply of weaponry there.
“I thought that [Benjamin] Netanyahu’s response – ‘these things happen in war’ – was completely inadequate, frankly shamefully inadequate.”

UK government under pressure from Tories to stop arming Israel | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian

UK government under pressure from Tories to stop arming Israel

Lib Dems also call for action to suspend arms exports to Israel after seven aid workers killed in Gaza

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/britain-should-stop-arming-israel-lord-ricketts-former-national-security-adviser

Silence1 · 03/04/2024 20:43

I believe he used to very much support Israel ?

"World Central Kitchen founder Jose Andres has accused Israeli forces in Gaza of targeting the aid workers in a strike that killed seven members of his staff on Monday, "systematically, car by car".
Speaking to Reuters news agency, Andres says that the killing of seven WCK personnel was not a mistake or a misfire, and asserts that the Israelis knew their movements at the time of the attack."

Chef Jose Andres says Israel targeted his aid workers 'systematically, car by car' | Reuters

Barquentine · 03/04/2024 21:09

IWFH · 03/04/2024 09:18

I assumed so.

I’m thinking delusional myself

Scirocco · 03/04/2024 21:37

Cogat is reported to be stating they passed accurate details about the convoy to the IDF.

RickyGervaislovesdogs · 03/04/2024 21:42

Those poor people, the charity workers who have been murdered and the people they were delivering it too.

The human race is an abomination.

EasterIssland · 03/04/2024 21:54

Silence1 · 03/04/2024 20:43

I believe he used to very much support Israel ?

"World Central Kitchen founder Jose Andres has accused Israeli forces in Gaza of targeting the aid workers in a strike that killed seven members of his staff on Monday, "systematically, car by car".
Speaking to Reuters news agency, Andres says that the killing of seven WCK personnel was not a mistake or a misfire, and asserts that the Israelis knew their movements at the time of the attack."

Chef Jose Andres says Israel targeted his aid workers 'systematically, car by car' | Reuters

jose Andrés ? Yes. He went against the Spanish government back in October when some members were reporting Israel was about to do genocide. It’s taken him time to recognise it himself, by getting some of his workers killed.

I thibk I’ve read comments he was feeding idf members as well at the beginning but im not 100% about it.
despite his organisations amazing work , he is not well loved in Spain

the link is in Spanish. It confirms that at the beginning was providing aid in Israel but not in Palestine , it was anera (the other organisation that has pulled out) the one providing it

https://www.huffingtonpost.es/virales/el-chef-jose-andres-responde-forma-directa-usuario-le-hizo-critica-mas-repetida.html?outputType=amp

EasterIssland · 03/04/2024 21:55

RickyGervaislovesdogs · 03/04/2024 21:42

Those poor people, the charity workers who have been murdered and the people they were delivering it too.

The human race is an abomination.

And those that are going to die as a result of several organisations pulling out of providing the aid

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 03/04/2024 22:09

@Silence1 it is looking that way, isn't it. Even if it hadn't been stated, it was pretty obvious that they could identify the charity writing on the roof.

NotTerfNorCis · 03/04/2024 22:50

Ever so often I come to this board just to say:

I can't believe some people are still supporting Israel in this mess.

Surely everyone must realise by now that October 7th, undeniably horrific, didn't come out of a vacuum.

Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is and has always been awful.

maudelovesharold · 03/04/2024 23:38

NotTerfNorCis · 03/04/2024 22:50

Ever so often I come to this board just to say:

I can't believe some people are still supporting Israel in this mess.

Surely everyone must realise by now that October 7th, undeniably horrific, didn't come out of a vacuum.

Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is and has always been awful.

Absolutely. No war in the West Bank, but still Palestinians being killed there. And it’s not anti-Semitic to speak the truth about how barbaric the Israelis have become.

Prrambulate · 04/04/2024 04:53

maudelovesharold · 03/04/2024 23:38

Absolutely. No war in the West Bank, but still Palestinians being killed there. And it’s not anti-Semitic to speak the truth about how barbaric the Israelis have become.

The whistleblowing accounts from within the IDF about the AI system used for identifying targets is truly shocking.

Killing of 5 Foreign Aid Workers from the World Central Kitchen
BabaBarrio · 04/04/2024 07:21

This U.K. Lawyers letter to the U.K. Government was published yesterday
https://lawyersletter.uk/uk-lawyers-open-letter-concerning-gaza/

London
03 April 2024
We are UK-based or qualified lawyers, legal academics and former members of the judiciary committed to upholding the rule of law and to protecting fundamental rights; and who share deep concern about the catastrophe unfolding in the Gaza Strip.

In a letter dated 26 October 2023, over a thousand members of the legal profession wrote to you concerning your Government’s obligations to avert and avoid complicity in serious breaches of International Humanitarian Law (“IHL”) in Gaza.

Since that letter, there have been significant developments in relation to the situation in Gaza. These include the provisional order of the International Court of Justice dated 26 January 2024, by which the Court concluded that there was a plausible risk of genocide in Gaza; UN Security Council Resolution 2728 on 25 March 2024 demanding an immediate ceasefire during the month of Ramadan; and the worsening situation in Gaza, where the UN and international aid agencies warn of imminent famine, and where a ground offensive is threatened in Rafah, the last place of refuge for two-thirds of the population.

We write in the light of these developments to remind you of your Government’s obligations under international law, which require you to take, amongst others, the following five actions:

  1. to work actively and effectively to secure a permanent ceasefire in Gaza;
  2. to take all available measures to ensure safe access to and delivery of the essentials of existence and medical assistance to Palestinians in Gaza, including confirmation that UK funding to UNRWA will continue with immediate effect;
  3. to impose sanctions upon individuals and entities who have made statements inciting genocide against Palestinians;
  4. to suspend the provision of weapons and weapons systems to the Government of Israel; and
  5. to suspend the 2030 Road Map for UK-Israel bilateral relations and negotiations towards an enhanced trade agreement and to initiate a review into the suspension of the UK’s bilateral trade agreement with Israel and consider the imposition of sanctions.
A link to the full letter and detailed account of our reasons can be found here. LIST OF SIGNATORIES: This letter remains open for signature by retired judges, legal practitioners and legal academics (PhD or higher) qualified and/or practising in the UK. The views and opinions expressed in this letter are those of the signatories and are not intended to reflect the official policy or position of their employers, or the organisations of which they are members or otherwise represent. FORMER JUDICIARY
  1. The Rt Hon Baroness Hale of Richmond, former President of the Supreme Court
  2. The Rt Hon Lord Sumption, former Justice of the Supreme Court
  3. The Rt Hon Lord Wilson, former Justice of the Supreme Court
  4. The Rt Hon Sir Richard Aikens, former Lord Justice of Appeal
  5. The Rt Hon Sir Anthony Hooper, former Judge of the Court of Appeal
  6. The Rt Hon Sir Alan Moses, former Lord Justice of the Court of Appeal
  7. The Rt Hon Sir Stephen Sedley, former Judge of the Court of Appeal
  8. Her Honour Patricia Dangor, former Circuit Judge; and former Judge of the Appeal Court of Bermuda
  9. His Honour Nic Madge, former Circuit Judge
  10. Jane Coker, former Judge of the Upper Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber)
  11. Nadine Finch, former Judge of the Upper Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber)
  12. Catriona Jarvis, former Judge of the Upper Tribunal (Immigration and Asylum Chamber)

Plus signatures of 81 KCs and over a 1,000 other lawyers/barristers..

UK Judges' and Lawyers' Open Letter Concerning Gaza - UK lawyers’ open letter concerning Gaza

London 03 April 2024 We are UK-based or qualified lawyers, legal academics and former members of the judiciary committed to upholding the rule of law and to protecting fundamental rights; and who share deep concern about the catastrophe unfolding in th...

https://lawyersletter.uk/uk-lawyers-open-letter-concerning-gaza/

SunshinDay · 04/04/2024 07:24

I thought the 600 legal people's letter was new?

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