Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Us to send 17.6billion to Israel

111 replies

EasterIssland · 03/02/2024 21:37

17.6 billion would include funds to help replenish Israel's missile defense systems, procure additional advanced weapons systems, and produce artillery and other munitions

why
why does Israel need so much money if they’re such a successful country
why Israel? Why not any other country?
What benefit does usa get from funding a conflict ?

can anyone explain why does usa keep on aiding Israel when this money could save many lives around the world?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-house-panel-recommends-176-billion-military-aid-israel-2024-02-03/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
25milesfromhome · 05/02/2024 00:02

SharonEllis · 04/02/2024 22:12

And how many Jews live in ME countries apart from Israel now?

Indeed. Much peaceful, very co-existence. No violent purges or ethnic cleansing whatsoever.

Us to send 17.6billion to Israel
queenofarles · 05/02/2024 05:36

Indeed. Much peaceful, very co-existence. No violent purges or ethnic cleansing whatsoever.

But let’s not forget other major factors from 1940s onwards like some Arab countries were under German rules during WW2, and Jews were killed as a subsequent, somewhere between 4000 to 5000 were killed in North Africa , and then there was the call to immigrate and populate the newly formed Nation of Israel , operation Yachin in Morocco , Moses in Ethiopia Mossad involvement in driving Jews out of Iraq as well as heightened tensions due to the events of 48 and the Ba’ath regime and Pan Arab movement of 50s-60s in several Arab countries .

But also let us not forget how
Morocco refused to hand over their Jewish population to the Vichy government and face what millions of European jews sadly faced in Nazi concentration camps, the king famously said I have no Jews , I only have Moroccans in my country.

some nations like Iran welcomed escaped Polish Jews from the Soviet Union during WW2 and how some decided to remain in places like Iran , the biggest Jewish population in ME are in Iran after all.

Many Arabs and Middle eastern individuals risked their lives to save Jews during WW2, like Egyptian Dr Mohammed Helmi and an Iranian diplomat by the name Sirdari who issued Iranian passports to help Jews escape .

And please please let’s never forget that neither Arabs nor Muslims are responsible for the horrors of WW2, that prior to these events in Europe and for over two Millennias Jews lived in somewhat co existence and in thriving communities in the ME.

SharonEllis · 05/02/2024 06:27

Noone has ever to my knowledge here, or anywhere else, blamed muslims for the nazi genocide in europe. Yes, we know that Jews are from the ME & lived in thriving communities for milennia. That's kind of the point. Of course there were Arabs who did not persecute them. There always are good people who resist evil. But the overall picture of Jews in the ME in the 20th century is one of persecution & people having to leave (often leaving everything behind) because their lives were no longer tenable in those countries. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries

Jewish Refugees from Arab Countries

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries

BackandForthRoundandRound · 05/02/2024 06:35

ProfessorPipsqueak · 04/02/2024 16:14

I really wish mumsnet would stamp down on misinformation on this topic. It's really annoying to read the same misinformation spread repeatedly. Things like Hamas broke a ceasefire on Oct 7. It feels really disrespectful to the 100s of Palestinians Israel killed last year prior to Oct 7 to just write them out of history or like their lives didn't matter enough to count as 'breaking a ceasefire' but when Israeli lives are lost it counts. Especially when 2023 was the deadliest year on record for children in the West Bank prior to Oct 7. There was no ceasefire for Palestinians.

Edited

Agreed... all this does is continue to spread more lies in an attempt to gloss over what has actually been going on.

BackandForthRoundandRound · 05/02/2024 06:35

SharonEllis · 05/02/2024 06:27

Noone has ever to my knowledge here, or anywhere else, blamed muslims for the nazi genocide in europe. Yes, we know that Jews are from the ME & lived in thriving communities for milennia. That's kind of the point. Of course there were Arabs who did not persecute them. There always are good people who resist evil. But the overall picture of Jews in the ME in the 20th century is one of persecution & people having to leave (often leaving everything behind) because their lives were no longer tenable in those countries. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-refugees-from-arab-countries

History would state otherwise....

stomachameleon · 05/02/2024 07:27

@25milesfromhome goof point.

EasterIssland · 05/02/2024 07:36

stomachameleon · 04/02/2024 21:43

@EasterIssland I believe Trump and Netanyahu get on. In my opinion that's not the stumbling block to that deal... he is anti getting involved in Ukraine.
I may be wrong.

Not sure about that , i saw a video the other day where he was calling for a ceasefire

tbh I see both as politicians that want to save their arses and will do whatever to obtain at and probably trump is trying to get some pro Palestine votes that Biden is losing in the coming elections

OP posts:
stomachameleon · 05/02/2024 07:42

@EasterIssland I believe trump would do anything to garner votes but

apnews.com/article/trump-netanyahu-israel-2024-primary-criticism-7fb4181b664bb28408ff92b8e5565ced

He also stopped funding to unwra whilst he was president and Biden reinstated it.

I believe it's well known they get on.

stomachameleon · 05/02/2024 07:44

Where the ceasefire is concerned I think he believes he has the 'wherewithal' to defeat all powers and wars. Same with Ukraine. He said it would all be over in a day if he was president.
The reality of course......?

OP posts:
25milesfromhome · 05/02/2024 08:17

queenofarles · 05/02/2024 05:36

Indeed. Much peaceful, very co-existence. No violent purges or ethnic cleansing whatsoever.

But let’s not forget other major factors from 1940s onwards like some Arab countries were under German rules during WW2, and Jews were killed as a subsequent, somewhere between 4000 to 5000 were killed in North Africa , and then there was the call to immigrate and populate the newly formed Nation of Israel , operation Yachin in Morocco , Moses in Ethiopia Mossad involvement in driving Jews out of Iraq as well as heightened tensions due to the events of 48 and the Ba’ath regime and Pan Arab movement of 50s-60s in several Arab countries .

But also let us not forget how
Morocco refused to hand over their Jewish population to the Vichy government and face what millions of European jews sadly faced in Nazi concentration camps, the king famously said I have no Jews , I only have Moroccans in my country.

some nations like Iran welcomed escaped Polish Jews from the Soviet Union during WW2 and how some decided to remain in places like Iran , the biggest Jewish population in ME are in Iran after all.

Many Arabs and Middle eastern individuals risked their lives to save Jews during WW2, like Egyptian Dr Mohammed Helmi and an Iranian diplomat by the name Sirdari who issued Iranian passports to help Jews escape .

And please please let’s never forget that neither Arabs nor Muslims are responsible for the horrors of WW2, that prior to these events in Europe and for over two Millennias Jews lived in somewhat co existence and in thriving communities in the ME.

Edited

And that’s why there are still so many Jews happily and peacefully co-existing in all these countries today. Not my family, who experienced persecution, denial of citizenship and displacement from three of the countries on that list both pre and post WW2. No refugee status, no reparations and no right of return afforded to them. No history lecture required.

queenofarles · 05/02/2024 08:19

But the overall picture of Jews in the ME in the 20th century is one of persecution & people having to leave (often leaving everything behind) because their lives were no longer tenable in those countries.

and no one is denying it , and there are reasons behind that as I’ve stated in my post, it did not just come out of nowhere , prior to WW2 almost every ME country had a Jewish Community.
there were always Jews living along with Muslims , their history and faiths are so intertwined.

even in countries like Iran , Jews are still protected by the constitution and have one seat in the Iranian parliament.

western imperialism and colonialism played a horrible part in shaping the current religious and political climate in the ME and that’s the root of so many long lasting issues in the ME.

queenofarles · 05/02/2024 08:27

who experienced persecution, denial of citizenship and displacement from three of the countries on that list both pre and post WW2. No refugee status, no reparations and no right of return afforded to them.
so did many Muslim Iraqis , Syrians , Egyptians ,
they were imprisoned , forced into exile even killed ,due to political unrest in their countries .

25milesfromhome · 05/02/2024 08:34

queenofarles · 05/02/2024 08:27

who experienced persecution, denial of citizenship and displacement from three of the countries on that list both pre and post WW2. No refugee status, no reparations and no right of return afforded to them.
so did many Muslim Iraqis , Syrians , Egyptians ,
they were imprisoned , forced into exile even killed ,due to political unrest in their countries .

I’m not disagreeing with you or suggesting those things didn’t happen as well so I’m not sure why you’re doubling down on this.

25milesfromhome · 05/02/2024 08:43

Can’t edit now, but just to correct myself so there can be no misunderstanding, I was talking about three of the countries from the list on my previous post, not yours.

BackandForthRoundandRound · 05/02/2024 09:07

queenofarles · 05/02/2024 08:27

who experienced persecution, denial of citizenship and displacement from three of the countries on that list both pre and post WW2. No refugee status, no reparations and no right of return afforded to them.
so did many Muslim Iraqis , Syrians , Egyptians ,
they were imprisoned , forced into exile even killed ,due to political unrest in their countries .

That fact doesn't fit into the narrative for some...

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 05/02/2024 09:31

I think that the aid is to try and keep a military presence in the region because of international shipping.

Yemen -a proxy for Iran is threatening trade in the Red Sea and Israel (acting as proxy for the USA) can retaliate.

The UK imported £63.5 billion from China in 2023 most going through the Red Sea and the USA still $35.5 although it is rapidly on-shoring.

queenofarles · 05/02/2024 09:34

I’m not doubling down 25Miles ,
nor did i mention in my posts "happily coexisted", nor am I denying that Jews didn’t experience unrest and were not forced to leave , but for the sake of being unbiased so did others Muslims in the countries mentioned in your list for simply belonging to a religious Islamic group or an opponent political group.

knitnerd90 · 05/02/2024 09:50

I don't know that I am a fan of additional aid, particularly unconditional, but there's a few things to know.

  1. A 2008 law requires the USA to help Israel maintain its qualitative military edge in the region. A lot of the funding dates back to an informal agreement made after the Camp David Accords in 1978. That is why America's second biggest recipient of aid is Egypt. Not the best regime in the world either. The base aid amounts have been set by appropriation through, IIRC, 2028.

  2. Most aid to Israel is in the form of FMF: Israel has to spend it on American made things. This means that the defence industry loves it, it is a massive backdoor subsidy to them.

  3. Netanyahu pretends to love Trump because he can play him like a fiddle. He could not play Obama or Biden the same way, so he hates them, even though their policies weren't very effective.

  4. Congress did not want to send money to Ukraine, so Biden tied it to Israel funding to force the Republicans to do it.

The deal isn't set yet. It could fall apart in the House because Trump is against it.

25milesfromhome · 05/02/2024 10:12

queenofarles · 05/02/2024 09:34

I’m not doubling down 25Miles ,
nor did i mention in my posts "happily coexisted", nor am I denying that Jews didn’t experience unrest and were not forced to leave , but for the sake of being unbiased so did others Muslims in the countries mentioned in your list for simply belonging to a religious Islamic group or an opponent political group.

Again, not disagreeing with you or denying that also happened. It was the treatment of Jews in the region that was being discussed by me, as some incorrect reframing was going on, and still doubling down.

EasterIssland · 05/02/2024 10:24

knitnerd90 · 05/02/2024 09:50

I don't know that I am a fan of additional aid, particularly unconditional, but there's a few things to know.

  1. A 2008 law requires the USA to help Israel maintain its qualitative military edge in the region. A lot of the funding dates back to an informal agreement made after the Camp David Accords in 1978. That is why America's second biggest recipient of aid is Egypt. Not the best regime in the world either. The base aid amounts have been set by appropriation through, IIRC, 2028.

  2. Most aid to Israel is in the form of FMF: Israel has to spend it on American made things. This means that the defence industry loves it, it is a massive backdoor subsidy to them.

  3. Netanyahu pretends to love Trump because he can play him like a fiddle. He could not play Obama or Biden the same way, so he hates them, even though their policies weren't very effective.

  4. Congress did not want to send money to Ukraine, so Biden tied it to Israel funding to force the Republicans to do it.

The deal isn't set yet. It could fall apart in the House because Trump is against it.

Thanks @knitnerd90 ans also thank you to those to sticking to the thread and avoiding derailment

OP posts:
Parkingt111 · 05/02/2024 10:47

@knitnerd90 thanks for that
Do you know why Trump is against it? I thought he was generally quite supportive of Israel. Or is he only against the funding of Ukraine

Snowypeak · 05/02/2024 13:16

ProfessorPipsqueak · 04/02/2024 16:41

No sorry I don't agree.

On March 1 was the The Huwara pogram, the violence from Israeli settlers was so brutral that an Israeli commander called it a pogrom.

In June there were 5 days of pograms where gangs of armed settlers, often in the hundreds, descended on 17 different Palestinian villages, lighting dozens of homes and cars on fire and shooting at Palestinian homes. The attacks by Jewish settlers prompted a raid by the Israeli military, which took part in and escalated the violence, turning their weapons on Palestinian residents and preventing critical medical care from reaching the injured.

The violence was escalating all year to prior to Oct 7. The international community had voiced their concerns at the rising level of violence from Israeli settlers and the IDF. Israel approved more and more funding to take more land from Palestinians inciting the violence from the settlers. It was anything but a ceasefire. It was a brutal year for Palestinians.

Thank you for highlighting this.

knitnerd90 · 05/02/2024 19:30

Parkingt111 · 05/02/2024 10:47

@knitnerd90 thanks for that
Do you know why Trump is against it? I thought he was generally quite supportive of Israel. Or is he only against the funding of Ukraine

He's against funding Ukraine and this is also tied to a border deal he doesn't want.

Swipe left for the next trending thread