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Conflict in the Middle East

Does IDF consider every man in Gaza to be Hamas?

111 replies

ConnieCounter · 16/01/2024 20:06

I'm trying to understand how many Hamas members have been killed.

Israel's stated aim in bombarding Gaza is to destroy Hamas, presumably by killing all their members. Surely, at over 100 days in, they need to justify this offensive, which has caused extremely high levels of civilian deaths and child deaths, by showing how successful they are being in their stated objective.

Hamas gives death tolls of total deaths, making it impossible to know how many are Hamas.

But looking at figures reported from the Israeli side yesterday, they say 9000 Hamas have been killed. They also cite a total death toll (using Hamas's figure) of over 23000.

That's almost 40% of the deaths.

Is Israel just counting every Palestinian man as a Hamas fighter? I don't see any other explanation.

And if they are doing this and nobody has a clue how many Hamas fighters they've actually killed, how on earth can this bombardment be justified, if its aim is to destroy Hamas?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/the-war-in-numbers-9000-hamas-members-killed-11000-rockets-fired-into-israel/amp/

OP posts:
Auvergne63 · 18/01/2024 16:42

MissyB1 · 18/01/2024 16:16

I agree they’ve been at it for years, mostly under the radar of the majority of the world. Even though it was in plain sight, most people I know had no idea. The scales are falling from people’s eyes now though.

I find it really sad that some people still defend the indefensible.
What happened on 07/10 cannot be defended either.
We can and should condemn both.

ConnieCounter · 18/01/2024 17:34

kesstrel · 18/01/2024 12:09

ConnieCounter · 16/01/2024 20:06
I'm trying to understand how many Hamas members have been killed.

Israel's stated aim in bombarding Gaza is to destroy Hamas, presumably by killing all their members.

"presumably"??? In reality, if you look at serious statements or analyses of Israel's war aims, they always feature the destruction of Hamas infrastructure: the tunnels, equipment, supplies, weapons, vehicles and weapons-manufacturing capability. For pretty obvious reasons.

This fact is consistently ignored on these threads, so you're not alone in disregarding it. But it is incredibly naive [at best] to ignore it if you;re actually trying to make serious points.

Well they're destroying all infrastructure so I guess that includes infrastructure belonging to or useful to Hamas.

OP posts:
FOJN · 18/01/2024 18:02

kesstrel · 18/01/2024 12:09

ConnieCounter · 16/01/2024 20:06
I'm trying to understand how many Hamas members have been killed.

Israel's stated aim in bombarding Gaza is to destroy Hamas, presumably by killing all their members.

"presumably"??? In reality, if you look at serious statements or analyses of Israel's war aims, they always feature the destruction of Hamas infrastructure: the tunnels, equipment, supplies, weapons, vehicles and weapons-manufacturing capability. For pretty obvious reasons.

This fact is consistently ignored on these threads, so you're not alone in disregarding it. But it is incredibly naive [at best] to ignore it if you;re actually trying to make serious points.

After 3 months and 25,000 deaths Israel has managed to destroy a lot of infrastructure, most of it civilian. The IDF do not even have operational control of northern Gaza, they are still fighting and taking casualties there.

We're not ignoring Israel's stated objectives just observing that they seem unable to achieve them but they have managed to displace almost the entire civilian population and render Gaza uninhabitable.

Israel's stated aim was to destroy Hamas and bring the hostages home, it has failed on both counts.

stomachameleon · 18/01/2024 22:58

Just for all those reticent to believe that Israelis have a voice.

twitter.com/BtSIsrael/status/1748061621673497002

ConnieCounter · 18/01/2024 23:44

stomachameleon · 18/01/2024 22:58

Just for all those reticent to believe that Israelis have a voice.

twitter.com/BtSIsrael/status/1748061621673497002

Worth noting that Israeli police had previously banned this march and during the march they removed any signs containing anything"resembling" Palestinian flags. So I wouldn't consider speaking out against Israel's actions in Gaza to be easy or straightforward.

OP posts:
nomadicnana · 19/01/2024 07:11

@FOJN "Israel's stated aim was to destroy Hamas and bring the hostages home, it has failed on both counts."

The war isn't over yet.

Your comments suggest you aren't following the IDF's activities.

According to the IDF, they completed the destruction of the weapon production infrastructure of Hamas's Central Camps Brigade, a brigade that controlled the centre of the Gaza Strip. The infrastructure included workshops and factories above and below ground. These were central to Hamas's empowerment capability, and from there, they transported the weapons and rockets to all areas of the Strip.

In the central area, troops returned to the area they had previously vacated, from where Hamas launched a large barrage of rockets towards Netivot earlier in the week. Yesterday, troops located and destroyed thirty rocket launcher barrels that were hidden underground, loaded with additional rockets for further launch and ready to be fired.

IDF Spokesperson Hagari related to the hostages in his briefing on Wednesday evening saying, “we are making every effort to produce intelligence about the hostages and adjust the operational activity according to the intelligence available to us. It must be said to the public - there is no complete picture of the hostages. We are in a continuous intelligence effort to complete this picture, to build it, to achieve it all the time.”

The problem seems to be that the location of the hostages may not be known even to Hamas, Several terrorist groups and even civilians attacked on 7th October 2023 and took hostages.

The following shows what sort of enemy the IDF are dealing with,

https://www.jns.org/hamas-man-wanted-to-sell-idf-soldiers-head-for-10000/

FOJN · 19/01/2024 08:18

nomadicnana · 19/01/2024 07:11

@FOJN "Israel's stated aim was to destroy Hamas and bring the hostages home, it has failed on both counts."

The war isn't over yet.

Your comments suggest you aren't following the IDF's activities.

According to the IDF, they completed the destruction of the weapon production infrastructure of Hamas's Central Camps Brigade, a brigade that controlled the centre of the Gaza Strip. The infrastructure included workshops and factories above and below ground. These were central to Hamas's empowerment capability, and from there, they transported the weapons and rockets to all areas of the Strip.

In the central area, troops returned to the area they had previously vacated, from where Hamas launched a large barrage of rockets towards Netivot earlier in the week. Yesterday, troops located and destroyed thirty rocket launcher barrels that were hidden underground, loaded with additional rockets for further launch and ready to be fired.

IDF Spokesperson Hagari related to the hostages in his briefing on Wednesday evening saying, “we are making every effort to produce intelligence about the hostages and adjust the operational activity according to the intelligence available to us. It must be said to the public - there is no complete picture of the hostages. We are in a continuous intelligence effort to complete this picture, to build it, to achieve it all the time.”

The problem seems to be that the location of the hostages may not be known even to Hamas, Several terrorist groups and even civilians attacked on 7th October 2023 and took hostages.

The following shows what sort of enemy the IDF are dealing with,

https://www.jns.org/hamas-man-wanted-to-sell-idf-soldiers-head-for-10000/

Your comments suggest you are ONLY paying attention to what the IDF says, they have a proven history of lying.

Daniel Hagari is barely credible, he presented both the "hostage watch rota" and the faked PIJ phone call to the world. If he told me today was Friday I'd check with another source to confirm.

The IDF claimed to have cleared northern Gaza of Hamas but they clearly have not.

nomadicnana · 19/01/2024 09:01

@FOJN "Your comments suggest you are ONLYpaying attention to what the IDF says, they have a proven history of lying."

So should we believe Hamas?

Can you give me a link to their updates? Thanks.

FOJN · 19/01/2024 09:21

nomadicnana · 19/01/2024 09:01

@FOJN "Your comments suggest you are ONLYpaying attention to what the IDF says, they have a proven history of lying."

So should we believe Hamas?

Can you give me a link to their updates? Thanks.

You assume there are only two sources of information.

I have no links to Hamas propaganda because I don't trust them anymore than I trust the IDF.

Sorry to disappoint you.

nomadicnana · 19/01/2024 09:27

@FOJN "You assume there are only two sources of information."

So who else is operating 'on the ground' and able to relay comprehensive information?

Coyoacan · 19/01/2024 11:51

So who else is operating 'on the ground' and able to relay comprehensive information?

Journalists? Although the IDF has been killing them in unprecedented numbers

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