Does IDF consider every man in Gaza to be Hamas?

[ConnieCounter]

I'm trying to understand how many Hamas members have been killed.

Israel's stated aim in bombarding Gaza is to destroy Hamas, presumably by killing all their members. Surely, at over 100 days in, they need to justify this offensive, which has caused extremely high levels of civilian deaths and child deaths, by showing how successful they are being in their stated objective.

Hamas gives death tolls of total deaths, making it impossible to know how many are Hamas.

But looking at figures reported from the Israeli side yesterday, they say 9000 Hamas have been killed. They also cite a total death toll (using Hamas's figure) of over 23000.

That's almost 40% of the deaths.

Is Israel just counting every Palestinian man as a Hamas fighter? I don't see any other explanation.

And if they are doing this and nobody has a clue how many Hamas fighters they've actually killed, how on earth can this bombardment be justified, if its aim is to destroy Hamas?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/the-war-in-numbers-9000-hamas-members-killed-11000-rockets-fired-into-israel/amp/

Yes, I don’t know where to check all you wrote about but entirely agree that the results of the retaliation for 9/11 have been absolutely dreadful.

And widely believed now, I believe, to have been very counter productive. Isn’t that why Biden said to Israel something to the effect of, ‘Don’t make the same mistake we did’.

You are right to point out what we and the US did before, but it was not all right.

Excuse you, I brought up a few examples of mass killings in a short space of time during a war to correct a false claim made on this thread that No war in history has ever killed over 30,000 in such a short space of time. I deliberately didn’t mention they were mass killings of Jews so as not to distract from the topic, yet that was the one thing you decided to focus upon in order to indulge in some moralising whataboutery rather than addressing a single point in my post.

The rest of my post was a continuation on how hyperbole and falsity is unhelpful here, with regards to the claim that the IDF are not to be believed, ever, not even when they admitted to their mistakes and actually confirmed some Gazan men they detained and mistreated were not Hamas.

You can understand where the confusion lies

www.jns.org/661-terrorists-tied-to-oct-7-to-get-pa-pay-for-slay-stipends/

What confusion? They're just killing people indiscriminately.

There are elderly, women and teenagers actively involved in Hamas too.

This is just sickening, and is only being said by the poster to justify the deaths of innocents. Why not include the children too since you're not ashamed to include the elderly? Why leave one group out.

Does anyone who supports Israel not worry about this?

Does it not bother you that an army you express support for is killing civilians in their tens of thousands with seemingly no plan, or even understanding of the difference between a combatant/terrorist and a civilian? Surely knowing your enemy is war 101? Or are you OK with it because they're Palestinians?

I'm quite disgusted at some of the attitudes and posts on this thread.

@balamo most of hamas' Hierarchy would be considered elderly.

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67103298

This is from the Guardian earlier this week; An unlikely charge of intent to commit treason landed Meir Baruchin, a grey-haired, softly spoken history and civics teacher, in the solitary confinement wing of Jerusalem’s notorious “Russian Compound” prison in early November.
The evidence compiled by police who handcuffed him, then drove to his apartment and ransacked it as he watched, was a series of Facebook posts he’d made, mourning the civilians killed in Gaza, criticising the Israeli military, and warning against wars of revenge.

im sure there are Israelis who are not happy with how it’s being handled , but they are probably not comfortable speaking up.

I take it you don't consider those who were 'hosting' the hostages as part of Hamas? Some of them were elderly.

I'm quite clearly not saying every single old person is Hamas, I'm saying some in Hamas are elderly. Just like some in Hamas are women, and some are teenagers. Not all members of Hamas are men and and not all men are Hamas.

Stop telling me I'm justifying any innocent deaths. That's a disgusting and false accusation.

"im sure there are Israelis who are not happy with how it’s being handled , but they are probably not comfortable speaking up."

I take it you haven't spent much time with Israelis 🙈 They're not exactly known for holding back their opinions. I don't know anything about what you were posting about so don't have an opinion on it myself, but to say that Israelis don't dare speak up against injustice is just wrong. Israelis protest all sorts of things all the time, including for the rights of Palestinians.

What I would like to know is what is the IDF criteria for who is considered Hamas. Seeing as Hamas are the government of Gaza and have the political and armed faction. Like all governments, surely there will be civil servants and others who comes under their employment. So is anyone that has any link to the Hamas government killed?
From the figures the IDF have provided of Hamas members that have been killed, how is it known that they are members of Hamas?

So why was that man fired from his job and thrown into prison for speaking up for Palestinians?

Due to the blockade, many a time the civilians rely on Hamas to get essential items from the black market. Does that mean anyone who has had any contact with the Hamas government in Gaza are also considered as having links to Hamas and therefore killed?

I have no idea. I literally said I don't know anything about it. I was just saying that Israelis aren't known for holding back their opinions, and that's the part of the post I was commenting on. It was a completely unfair comment for that poster to make.

@queenofarles it was confirmed on the AMA that there is lots of disquiet and people speaking up in Israel about the war and how best to get the rest of the hostages returned.

We only ever hear about the Isolated cases though (especially in papers like the guardian) of someone treated badly for speaking out.

Israel is still a country at war. And people are nervous and worried about who to trust. Look at the peace activists in the kibbutzim who allowed people in who then betrayed them. People are frightened.

At least he didn't meet the same fate as suspected collaborators in the West Bank.

This is probably for a different thread but does anyone know how the IDF judge what is and isn't acceptable collateral damage? Thousands of children have died and we are told that they were unfortunate collateral damage. So if a building has one or two confirmed Hamas members and a hundred civilians, then is that building ok to bomb and regard the innocent deaths as collateral damage?

@Parkingt111 perhaps those questions are better asked to the lady on the ama... you know the lady who actually lives in Israel instead of asking people to second guess on here. She is still answering questions?

I will be interested to see if your tone is still the same on there.

Does anyone know an IDF spokesman for the last couple of questions? Anyone?

@stomachameleon how can you know my tone over text? I'm asking genuine questions, not rhetorical or sarcastic ones if that's what you are thinking

If anyone has read anything or has material on the above questions

But why is it unfair? Humdingerydoo
there must be people who are not comfortable speaking up against the IDF, specially since it’s a difficult time for
the whole country.

I think it’s unfair to say all Israelis are ok with all the deaths.

@stomachameleon i have read the AMA and she has previously said that she doesn't know about military tactics.
I wasn't asking anyone to guess, I was asking if anyone knows ie links or sources

That does seem to be the case, they call the type of targets you are describing "power targets".

www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/

@FOJN thanks I will give it a read.

Because you're trying to imply that Israel is a country where it isn't safe to protest or vocalise an opinion that doesn't follow government lines, which is just not accurate. There might be individuals who don't dare speak up but that's not because they're scared of what the government will do to them 🙄

"All Israelis" aren't ok with anything. They're not some homogeneous group of people. Some speak up, some don't.