Does IDF consider every man in Gaza to be Hamas?

[ConnieCounter]

I'm trying to understand how many Hamas members have been killed.

Israel's stated aim in bombarding Gaza is to destroy Hamas, presumably by killing all their members. Surely, at over 100 days in, they need to justify this offensive, which has caused extremely high levels of civilian deaths and child deaths, by showing how successful they are being in their stated objective.

Hamas gives death tolls of total deaths, making it impossible to know how many are Hamas.

But looking at figures reported from the Israeli side yesterday, they say 9000 Hamas have been killed. They also cite a total death toll (using Hamas's figure) of over 23000.

That's almost 40% of the deaths.

Is Israel just counting every Palestinian man as a Hamas fighter? I don't see any other explanation.

And if they are doing this and nobody has a clue how many Hamas fighters they've actually killed, how on earth can this bombardment be justified, if its aim is to destroy Hamas?

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/the-war-in-numbers-9000-hamas-members-killed-11000-rockets-fired-into-israel/amp/

You said people aren't afraid to speak out. How can you be so sure? Is this man lying about his experience or should we believe him?

Also @stomachameleon I wondered how long it would be until someone dismissed the man's experience because it was printed in the Guardian. It didn't take you long 😁

No clearly Israelis are not a hive mind, some of them disagree with you about their freedom to express an opinion without repercussions.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/22/an-atmosphere-of-fear-free-speech-under-threat-in-israel-activists-say

"Protests in sympathy with Gaza have been dispersed with force and Israel’s chief of police, Yaakov Shabtai, said last week: “Anyone who wants to identify with Gaza is welcome. I will put them on buses now that are headed there and I will help him get there.”

@ConnieCounter it's easy to print those stories because they are reflective of the guardian In general.

It was confirmed on the ama there were lots of groups in Israel anti war and people in Israel working with people in Gaza/ peace related groups.

Did you read it?

This is from the Times of Israel.

Police break up a protest calling for a ceasefire in Tel Aviv on January 16, 2024.
Israel Police have aggressively broken up a small protest in Tel Aviv calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.
Footage shows officers violently stripping away signs that read, “stop the massacre” from the handful of demonstrators.
Police reportedly told the demonstrators that they were breaking up the protest because it was “harming the feelings of the public.”

This clearly demonstrates that calling for a ceasefire in Israel is far from being safe.

Oh FFS all I said was Israel isn't a country where it is illegal to protest or speak your mind, which I felt was what the poster was trying to imply and was the only part I was challenging. That's why that was the only part I quoted. I have no idea what the man you're all talking about actually posted so I can't, and won't, comment on any of it!

How great it is that people in Israel are allowed to speak their mind, shame that people in the West Bank can’t do the same.

I’m sure there are many of us on this thread, who if they lived in the West Bank, would be unfairly slated as antisemitic supporters of Hamas, and god knows what would happen to us

Personally, if you were to turn up to my house you would most likely find an unremarkable middle aged woman folding laundry, who simply wishes people would stop killing each other.

How great it is that people in Israel are allowed to speak their mind,

Sorry I am confused now. They can or they can't?

You missed a part. Might have to click the picture to see the last sentence there.

Standing together is holding a protest tomorrow by the way.
It's going to be in Tel Aviv. Although the last two protests they planned were banned, they said that they were going to take the matter to the high court so not sure if they did and that's what allowed it.

You do realise some posters are going to think people in Israel are able to speak their minds and other posters might think that they can't ?

I too read about him and having done so also have the clear impression that it is not wise to speak out.

Arresting Arabs and Left-wingers: How Israel Intends to Crack Down on Domestic Dissent Over Gaza War
Even if some of these statements are uncomfortable for Israelis to hear, they should be permitted as long as they don’t constitute genuine incitement
Haaretz Nov 14 2023

Does anyone know if Israeli television channels are showing what we in the U.K. are shown about Gaza? Or are they mostly showing the IDF, discussing 7 October atrocities, speaking to hostages, or interviewing politicians? For example, can people see BBC, Channel 4 news, or Al Jazeera news?

This is the Guardian writing about him:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/13/it-is-a-time-of-witch-hunts-in-israel-teacher-held-in-solitary-confinement-for-posting-concern-about-gaza-deaths

Haaretz Nov 14 also did but I cannot access the whole article:
“After he had spent five days in jail, with no indictment filed, a magistrate’s court released Dr. Meir Baruchin, a civics and history teacher, under certain restrictions on Monday. Just a few days ago, police had asked that he be kept in jail for “indicating a decision to commit treason,” a crime carrying a maximum sentence of 10 years in jail. But what started with a bang, involving “treason” and “justifying Hamas’ actions” in Facebook posts, ended with a whisper within a few days…”

He has just now been reinstated in his job following a court ruling:
Haaretz
“Israeli Court Reverses Dismissal of High School Teacher Who Criticized IDF on Social Media
The judge ruled that the municipality did not supply a justifiable cause for dismissal, adding that the Hamas attack and the war in Gaza do not change 'the boundaries of teachers' freedom of speech'”
Or KashtiJan 15, 2024

Well done to the court. What an ordeal he has been through though.

The media and Israel tell you this and you believe it. Have you not watched the snippers just trigger happy killing children. Israel have been showering Gaza in white phospherous. Stop believing in what Biden and sungai feed you with

Israel does ban channels but I do know they can definitely see Al Jazeera.

What is it with men and starting wars?

There are so many in history, what is wrong with them. Putin is still at it, they’re bloody deranged. Just WHY??!

Thank you for answering.

And your evidence for that is??

"Have you not watched the snippers just trigger happy killing children."

"Israel have been showering Gaza in white phospherous. "

Where can people watch these events you speak of?

@nomadicnana The evidence is widely available. It would take seconds for you to find it.
What evidence do you have that Hamas is the sole target?

@ConnieCounter
@stomachameleon

"@ConnieCounter I am bewildered as to why you would ask a question if you apparently already know the answer"

+++

There are a lot of these type of posts on the Middle East topic.

They usually start with some faux claim of ignorance like "I don't know much about politics but could someone please explain..." or "I don't know much about history but why ..."

They then insert some broad provocative statement like "why are Israel killing so many children in Gaza" or "blowing stuff is bad isn't it? So why are Israel doing it?" Etc etc

The OP then returns the thread maybe two or three times to stir the pot but once it's got going they generally don't comment any further.

But @stomachameleon coming back to your question of why someone would ask a question they already know the answer to then it is simply to create hate and stir resentment which in turn polarises views of both sides making reasoned fact based discussion impossible, compromises and peaceful solutions that much harder to achieve.

ConnieCounter · 16/01/2024 20:06
I'm trying to understand how many Hamas members have been killed.

Israel's stated aim in bombarding Gaza is to destroy Hamas, presumably by killing all their members.

"presumably"??? In reality, if you look at serious statements or analyses of Israel's war aims, they always feature the destruction of Hamas infrastructure: the tunnels, equipment, supplies, weapons, vehicles and weapons-manufacturing capability. For pretty obvious reasons.

This fact is consistently ignored on these threads, so you're not alone in disregarding it. But it is incredibly naive [at best] to ignore it if you;re actually trying to make serious points.

Their objective is to get rid of Hamas. Obviously, no-one in Hamas is walking around wearing a T-shirt with Hamas Member written on it so to cover all bases, they will smash the place up and kill as many military aged men as they possibly can.

Thats what happens in war. Thats what war is

No. Just….no.
As I said before they’re probably trying to destroy infrastructure

Of course the IDF don't think they are all Hamas. They are Palestinians, and that is enough to kill them. A young mum in Hebron was deliberately shot in the head this morning for filming. This is not something new, it's been going on for years.

So glad that the Israeli government is being exposed for what they are doing in Gaza and now in the West Bank and have been doing for years, in all impunity.

I agree they’ve been at it for years, mostly under the radar of the majority of the world. Even though it was in plain sight, most people I know had no idea. The scales are falling from people’s eyes now though.