"The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews" (part two) ***MNHQ has tweaked the title in order to make the quote more clear***

[stomachameleon]

Only the few apparently........these pictures are from todays March. Footage to follow..

I would think people marching in the UK hope to influence UK government and not Hamas? After all, the UK are their elected officials they were calling out for not representing their views?

When people say free Palestinians from river to sea - I would see this as saying free Palestinians from oppression from river to sea. Perhaps that’s why it’s not an illegal sign? People are showing their solidarity in this way- which doesn’t seem unkind at all.

I think most people see a 2SS as only path to peace and our elected officials are saying this too.

In the context of the thousands of people marching - I would hazard a guess that most of them believe what Hamas’s actions in 7/10 were deplorable. My point was all those marching are unlikely to be unreasonable people.

I never said it shouldn’t be called out wherever anyone says that it was a reasonable form of resistance.

are you saying you anticipated the bombing of Gaza and all the people who have been trapped there and died? How did you anticipate such horror?

Yes, it was blatantly obvious that Israel wouldn't tolerate Hamas remaining in power after 7 October. And as Hamas have deliberately embedded themselves deep within civilian infrastructure in a small, heavily populated area, it didn't take a genuis to work out that would look like, and what that would mean for the people of Gaza. And Hamas knew that and they didn't give a shit, they just did what they did anyway. Bloodshed all around and all entirely avoidable.

When people say free Palestinians from river to sea - I would see this as saying free Palestinians from oppression from river to sea

And yet there are many who use it to call for the eradication of Israel. Hamas and Hezbollah for example.

Not sure I'd be so convinced that marching alongside a terrorist-used slogan is totally fine.

I can appreciate this concern, but as I noted before- I think the view of most of the people on the marches is likely to be representative of ordinary citizens, and not Hamas nor Hezbollah.

For them the slogan will mean something different to that it might do from someone from Hamas and Hezbollah.

Granted, some on the marches might be being provocative using this slogan, knowing full well that Israel is here to stay. But perhaps this is also in response to the comments coming from Israeli MPs regarding Palestinians and their rights to a state.

I wouldn’t say it’s antisemitic to be critical of a government’s policy to deny Palestinian people statehood?

Why not pick a non-terrorist slogan? You know, to be sure you won't be misinterpreted.

I mean, Berlin have criminalised it, twitter has banned it, Labour has suspended an MP for using it. People really should know by now that it's problematic and if there is no intention to e.g. intimidate Jews, they should bin it.

When people say free Palestinians from river to sea - I would see this as saying free Palestinians from oppression from river to sea

But the Palestinian state, even in the event of the implementation of a successful two-state solution, is not going to extend from the river (Jordan) to the (Mediterranean) sea.

It's pretty clear what it actually means.

archive.ph/2024.02.18-093013/www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/02/jewish-anti-semitism-harvard-claudine-gay-zionism/677454/

Thanks, @stomachamelon , that's an interesting article. I haven't had time to read it all, but I've bookmarked it to read more later.

Some have argued it’s not so straightforward.
https://www.vox.com/world-politics/23972967/river-to-sea-palestine-israel-hamas

I think the argument about this one slogan reflects the whole situation with the marches. The intention perceived can be very different from that intended dependent on your view point and personal experience.

Its awful to hear about antisemitism increasing, and I can see why Jewish citizens find the marching intimidating. But, equally I think people should have a right to protest and show solidarity with Palestinians within legal confines.

I think the argument about this one slogan reflects the whole situation with the marches. The intention perceived can be very different from that intended dependent on your view point and personal experience.

I think it does reflect the whole situation with the marches.

From the river to the sea is used by terrorists to call for the eradication of Israel. Some on the march actually want the eradication of Israel. There's a tendency to not actually blatantly call for the eradication of Israel in public because that looks bad, so call instead to 'end the occupation' or 'from the river to the sea', both of which are used by various groups and people meaning eradication of Israel.

And then you have the other ones, the ones who instead of going 'oh, those slogans are a bit dodgy, I'll avoid them', will use them and then argue that it's fine because they mean it in a different way.

And instead of going 'I don't want to offend anyone or be misinterpreted so I'll call for peace in a way that doesn't look like I could possibly want the eradication of Israel' I'll instead argue with people that they should know that even though others want the eradication of Israel, I'm not like that, and you should be able to tell that and not be worried about me even though I'm indistinguishable from the other lot.

It's just simple bloody-mindedness and self-righteousness to continue using slogans that rightly cause others concern and then to berate the people who get concerned and say it's their problem.

It’s the sense of “I am in the right, I am righteous, therefore what I am doing is right and justifiable”.

For some people that covers chanting dodgy slogans without a second thought, for others it’s booing people coming out of McDonalds.

I think most people marching have picked their side. That’s why you don’t see them calling for an end to rape as a weapon of war or calling for an end to rockets fired or end to kidnap of civilians etc. It’s always end to “occupation” or support “resistance”. What Hamas is doing is NOT resistance.

People should have the right to protest but tolerance of intolerance will destroy us.

Protestors shouldn’t be allowed to disrupt shoppers, or other legitimate activities. Freedom of speech doesn’t come with the right to control what other people do.

We were shopping in Oxford Street when the protestors were there and got Zara to close. If I was Zara I would sue every individual protestor for loss of business. And I’m not even Jewish..

Rape and other violence against women has been a widespread feature of conflict internationally. There are a number of charities and aid projects set up to address this, including the UN's unwomen.org and Women for Women International.

I'd encourage everyone to look into supporting organisations working on tackling this. (Disclaimer: other organisations do exist and I can't vouch for the credentials of the ones I've mentioned as I don't work for or with them).

Rape and other violence against women has been a widespread feature of conflict internationally yes time and time again. Rape has been used as a weapon of war in this conflict both by Hamas and the IDF, both should be condemned and those individuals found guilty prosecuted and charged with war crimes.

https://www.thejournal.ie/israeli-army-killing-raping-women-and-girls-palestine-gaza-un-report-6303875-Feb2024/

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2023/11/24/escalation-in-north-west-syria-civilian-areas-hit-in-renewed-attacks/
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2023/12/08/images-of-syrian-civil-war-take-on-a-second-life-in-gaza-conflict/

Meanwhile, while everyone is looking at Gaza.....

More info on George Galloway in the second link....if we didn't already know him.

And at @MumoftwoGirls11

The people marching probably do feel they are in the right, although the behaviour of some may seem bizarre and upsetting to others. I am not sure this means that most of those who march do it solely to upset Jewish people though.

As I noted before, it is human nature to support the underdog. There are absolutely horrific photos from Gaza in SM.

It will undoubtedly be an inconvenience to the local people and businesses.

It is more than an inconvenience when you make a business close doors. It's innocent people losing money. How is that right?

And whilst the people taking part in these "protests" are happy to use terrorist slogans, none of them would say "rape is not resistance". Very sad, given the number of women taking part in these marches also. Self-destructive.

The intention is definitely to intimidate people who support Israel, and drown out any opposing points of view.

I wouldn't call an organisation whose leaders are worth $3billion the underdog.

@MumoftwoGirls11 you're less likely to see signs condemning sexual violence in conflict because that isn't the specific issue being marched/demonstrated for. That doesn't mean people don't also condemn sexual violence in conflict.

The intention is definitely to intimidate people who support Israel, and drown out any opposing points of view.
@MumoftwoGirls11 The title of the thread is whether the marches intimidate British jews?
Marches are in the main single issue/ standpoints by their nature, so I would imagine they want to drown out the opposing view in order to get the specific issue they are marching for heard? I don't think that is particularly unique to any protest march

I honestly don’t know anyone who wants to intimidate British Jewish people and I would say the vast majority of the people I know would like the Israelis to stop killing people in Gaza.

''Dignity cannot be reserved for those on our 'team'. Any lasting peace will not come about by picking teams. The conflict between Israelis and Palestinians will continue for as long as the humanity of either people is rejected.
Empathy exists in no small supply"

@TomeTome whether you recognise it or not it's happening on these marches. I am pleased they aren't your mates. There is plenty of them though.

I want the hostages back and for peace to be achieved. Recognising both sides pain goes a long way.

@stomachamelon i wasn’t limiting my observation to my friends but literally everyone I’ve come in contact with. Intimidating Jews as an objective isn’t something I’ve ever heard proposed or witnessed. In my lifetime.