"The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews" (part two) ***MNHQ has tweaked the title in order to make the quote more clear***

[stomachameleon]

Only the few apparently........these pictures are from todays March. Footage to follow..

You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the Allies didn't hate Nazi Germany, fascist Italy and Japan! 🤦‍♂️

The Axis of Evil militaries had to be dehumanised in order for Allied soldiers to overcome a strong instinct not to kill. The actions and ideology of Nazi Germany, Italy and Japan certainly gave every justification in the book for the Allied Forces to kill them in massive numbers.

Quite frankly, your idealism cannot deal with wars and conflicts in any practical sense which is why you resort to misrepresenting what people are actually saying. 🤦‍♂️

I'd certainly advise you to step away.

And this is the bit I was waiting for you to build up too

Thank you for finally getting there. It took you an age but was obviously coming

Afraid you only saw you don't do hate because you don't understand what being the subject of people that have for generations tried to wipe you off the face of the earth actually feels like.

For example Arabs and Jews on that tiny bit of land only the size of Wales feel something towards each other that most will never understand. Sometimes it is hate, sometimes pity, sometimes an overwhelming sadness, and lots of other emotions. Yes some can try to put the hate aside to work for peace. However the hate will always be there in some form for at least another generation after the physical fighting stops.

Once whether by force or what I have hoped all along a combination of the more peaceful Arab states thay act as security over Gaza has stopped the physical conflict. Then and only then can we hope to end the hate and other negative emotions most these people rightly feel about each other. However for a fair few the hate will last a lifetime. My grandmother was an amazing woman but never got over the war and to her dieing day hated German people over a certain age. It wasn't logical as many were not involved with what happened to he loved ones or nice but after everything she went through it was perfectly normal of her to feel this emotion

Part Jewish family here. Most of our family left central Europe at the start of the 20th century, so before the war. Only one of the six adult children stayed, no record of him and his family can now be found, we've looked. We have a recognisably Jewish last name. I admit, we are atheist though. I've talked about this on here before, long before the Gaza war, you can search.

It's well known that civilian deaths increase significantly in urban environments. The more densely populated an area is, the more likelihood of civilian deaths.

Gaza is an unusually densely populated space about 25 miles long and 7 miles wide.

Add to that how Hamas' terrorist infrastructure is so extensive within Gaza - above and below ground - that it is militarily valid to attack them. Civilian deaths WILL be very high given this. Hamas tunnels are under civilian infrastructure and even the entrance is within private homes.

Hamas are known to store and launch weapons from civilian infrastructure such as schools and hospitals.

The above combines to create conditions for, as you put it, that means deaths is "higher than any other 21st century conflict."

For Hamas, that is part of terrorist tactics AND terrorist PR. Why wouldn't it be?

See NATO StratCom

And the number of bombs dropped on this high densely populated area has nothing to do with it? Last figure I have was from Jan 4th, 45,000 bombs had been dropped at that stage so no doubt thousands more by now

Two things:

1. Was Israeli military action a direct response to Hamas’s attacks on 7th October 2023?

2. Would the deaths be as high if Hamas hadn't extensively developed terrorist infrastructure amongst the Gazan population, above and below ground?

Attached is Hamas leaders statement at the time.

Gazans have been brought to catastrophe by Hamas who have failed Gazans. Yes?

Not sure why you feel the need to tell me this. Not without some kind of explanation about how it connects to my last post. I don't need to know your background unless relevant to your argument and I have not said or implied you are antisemitic etc. Maybe you just don't comprehend what I have said and why.

I was replying to this bit.

Afraid you only saw you don't do hate because you don't
understand what being the subject of people that have for generations tried to
wipe you off the face of the earth actually feels like.

Passing down hate through the generations, how's that working
out for everyone so far? And if you're Ok with it or sympathetic or
understanding of the hatred, what's your problem with those protesters?

I don't think all this hatred is doing us any good, I know
plenty on this thread will disagree, but it just might be worth trying
something different and telling our children that it's not ok to hate other
people.

But your own experience clearly states that you have not been subject to people that want to wipe you off the map for generations. You may have relatives way back that understand what that feels like but you have not experienced the generations yourself. You say this in that statement. This is why I asked what the connection is to my statement. You are clearly not affected by the current conflict of even as far back as the holocaust with relatives that you knew on a personal level. So your family history lesson was an odd post.

I don't think all this hatred is doing us any good, I know plenty on this thread will disagree

Oh sure, everyone on here thinks that hatred is in fact lovely

While hate doesn’t automatically lead to violence, it does correlate with it and isn’t a desirable state. It is destructive to the person who feels it, and if they act on it, whether consciously or subconsciously, it negatively impacts their target.

I’m not sure we can tell people not to feel hate, or vilify someone who has been through something terrible for ending up like that, but that doesn’t mean we can’t work in ways that help people manage emotions so they don’t get to that stage and provide information and support .

Hate is one step further than anger, and it distorts reality. It is obviously something to be concerned about!

I think you made a lot of good comments @Kendodd and I’m sorry you’re getting such a hard time for this one statement, that seemed to have been made with good intentions.

I think you have written a good post in regard to describing the hate Jo blokes down the pub feels about a one off event in their life. However like the poster other poster you fail to understand what the lifes of the people in the middle of this conflict are like and have been like for generations. This isn't the kind of hate that most people will get over by working on themselves or therapy.

Also the poster was saying that people on this thread were full of hate. Which is just a plan nasty thing to say. So if you agree with them I would suggest the pair of you both have therapy

distorts reality

Just in case anyone missed it this is the bit where the other poster adds on to the posters on this thread are full of hate type remarks

Basically this poster is implying people on this thread are distorting things because of all the hate eg the marches

I suggest posters just say what they mean and not beat around the bush or imply others are distorting reality in a back handed manner

To be fair Giraffe their is the odd post from you where I can picture Red from angry birds typing away 😂

This isn't the kind of hate that most people will get over by working on themselves or therapy.

How do you think they can move on from the hate? I am not being goady just genuinely interested in understanding. Conflicts, death, destruction, fear lead to trauma as well and trauma is often helped through therapeutic interventions so I am wondering why the same can't work for the type of hate you describe?

According to Yoda, staying away from the dark side is a good way to avoid hate, seems like good advice.

I type a good angry post, however I am actually pretty chilled when doing so.

I've met a bunch of people from MN from the covid times and I was voted 'most unlike what we were expecting' 😂

Personally I don't think both sides will for at least another generation if not more. That is why security will still have to remain even if the conflict stops and an agreement about peace is made.

Hopefully over the years security can then be peeled back slowly a little at a time. I hope at some point the Palestinians can govern themselves and their own security. However in the beginning of any new peace they will need another Arab state or two for security. That isn't just to keep Israel safe but to keep the Palestinians in a more healthy peaceful environment too.

In the long run schools and community work with the younger generation and next generation will need to have programmes similar to those German had after the war. This would be run for both sides. Just like here educating the you about tolerance will be key.

Glad to here it

😂

That is a sensible and true comment.

The high numbers of deaths are partly due to the ingrained terrorist infrastructure but also the huge use of unguided dumb bombs by the IDF. And the use of hugely destructive 2,000-pound bombs, which munitions experts say are almost never used by Western forces in highly populated areas anymore.

If you’ve seen any of the live footage of people (including children) being bought into the hospitals in Gaza with the most appalling shrapnel/burn wounds you can see for yourself just how destructive they are.

A snippet from an interview with Marc Garlasco, who worked at the Pentagon and was the chief of high-value targeting at the Defense Intelligence Agency from 1997 to 2003; his focus has also been civilian harm mitigation.

Sorry OP, that was off-topic from the original thread title.

@Trulywonderful

Hate does distort reality, it colours perceptions and is of relevance to prejudice and dehumanisation.

I agree that it will take a long time for there to be less hate, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t an issue and that work shouldn’t be done to reduce it.

Yes, there may need to be security in place to protect Gaza/The West Bank and Israel from eachother for some time.

Also, I think the level of trauma the people within Gaza have experienced is unbelievable, it truly horrifies me. I don’t need that pointed out!

Both sides have and will have trauma. You may not need that pointing out about Gazens but don't acknowledge it for Israelis. So I was right to point things out.

A lot has happened even before the pogrom the bombing. So that and the generational trauma is really for many many people on the land on both sides.

@Trulywonderful any news on that awful man who gave that speech on Saturday?