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Conflict in the Middle East

Consumer Boycotts

672 replies

Desertrose2023 · 24/12/2023 15:58

I posted the BDS list in the supporting Palestinian businesses thread and recent discussion on another thread re the backlash against Zara got me wondering how many others are participating in consumer boycotts linked to the conflict in Gaza (and the occupation in Palestine) or for different reasons.

there are a number of brands I’m boycotting usually for a mix of reasons, political, environmental and social. Interested to hear views from others.

Disclaimer: to avoid any misinterpretation or twisting of my words - I do not support any acts of violence or vandalism or boycotting based on religion/ethnicity.

all the ones on the BDS committee list

https://bdsmovement.net/

in addition to a few others (sample below)

Starbucks: overpriced shit coffee and they recently sued their union for tweeting in support/solidarity with Palestine.

Zara: I stopped buying stuff following the controversy of their head womenswear designer making disgusting anti-Palestinian comments. The reports of slave labour (Uyghurs and in Brazil) plus the recent tone deaf ad campaign was the final straw. Plus trying to be more conscious re reducing how much ‘fast fashion’ I buy anyway.

Nestle: a history of unethical corporate practices plus including ownership of an Israeli food company with production in OPT.

BDS Movement

The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement works to end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law.

https://bdsmovement.net/

OP posts:
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JaneBirkinsNose · 27/12/2023 11:38

…particularly when an active genocide in unfolding.

Stop lying @headstone!

If Palestinians have the ability to stay alive by simply not killing Israelis, then they are not facing a genocide.

If on the other hand Israelis have the ability to stay alive because of their tremendous defensive systems, then they are probably facing a genocide.

Any way, on the topic of BDS, their campaigners frequently focus on demanding the "divestment" of university, municipal, church, union and other investment portfolios from companies that advocates claim “aid Israel’s occupation,” as well as calling for the “boycott” of Israeli products, professionals, professional associations and academic institutions, and artistic performances (in Israel and abroad).

This movement’s regressive policy of “anti-normalization” forbids people-to-people exchanges, dialogue opportunities for Israelis and Palestinians or even interactions between “pro-Israel” and “pro-Palestine” groups and advocates unless the parties involved first recognize Israelis as “oppressors” and “colonizers.” BDS thus seeks to dehumanize Israelis and opposes the fundamental building blocks for Israeli-Palestinian understanding, peace-building and ultimate reconciliation, even at the grassroots level.

Perhaps some supporters of BDS may genuinely believe that these tactics are a productive and non-violent way to effect change in the decades-long Israeli-Palestinian conflict. That still doesn’t change the reality that BDS campaigns, which portray Israel as a pariah state and advocate that it be singularly targeted, are extremely one-sided and disproportionate, thereby making the path to
peace far less achievable.

The BDS campaign does not support constructive measures to build Israeli-Palestinian engagement, nor does it promote peace negotiations or a mutually negotiated two-state solution to the conflict. Instead, BDS presents a biased and simplistic approach to the complex Israeli-Palestinian conflict, positioning this dispute over territorial and nationalist claims as the fault of only one party – Israel - while ignoring other actors and dynamics such as Palestinian shared responsibility for the continuation of the conflict. BDS advocates for self-determination for Palestinians while denying to Jews that same right.

The BDS movement uses divisive and inaccurate terms like “apartheid”, “genocide” (as you yourself have done, above) “settler colonist” and “supremacists” to refer to aspects of Israeli action or policy they criticize, language which serves to demonize the worlds only Jewish state and those who support its existence.

I’ve seen many BDS advocates and campaigns engage in antisemitic rhetoric, including allegations of Jewish power, dual loyalty, and Jewish/Israeli culpability for unrelated issues and crises. Some have made clear their opposition to the existence of the state of Israel altogether, or justify/express support for violence against Israelis. Increasingly troubling are incidents involving BDS advocates holding all Jews culpable for the Israeli government’s actions, and advocating a litmus test for Jews to renounce Israel and/or Israeli policies.

BDS often gives rise to tensions in communities — just look what’s happening on college campuses in the US at the moment ! — that result in the isolation and intimidation of Jews and supporters of Israel. With the focus on negating Israel and its supporters, BDS campaigns may create an environment in which antisemitic actions and expressions may be emboldened. Calling for the genocide of Jews is not harassment these days, apparently.

Finally, I’m not “conflating everything with the Nazis”. There is zero evidence for this outlandish claim and you know it. If comparisons to the Nazi’s MO makes you feel uncomfortable, maybe stop giving your support to an organisation that takes directly from their playbook.

Scirocco · 27/12/2023 11:53

@JaneBirkinsNose we may have different definitions of precision. I don't think executing civilians, running people over, bulldozing hospital premises and bombing famiy homes counts as precision targeting. My colleagues who have been killed were not terrorists. My friend's 2 year old nephew is not a terrorist.

stomachamaleon · 27/12/2023 11:57

@sailingdriving I wonder why the founder is relatively silent on the fact he studied (twice) at Israel unis (even though there are lots of viable alternatives) and yet advocates the isolating of Israeli scholars and their schools?

Seems strange behaviour. That he doesn't like talking about.

sailingdriving · 27/12/2023 11:59

@stomachamaleon I have no idea. Maybe he studied there before he got involved in the BDS movement? Ideas can change over time you know.

BigandBeefy · 27/12/2023 12:08

stomachamaleon · 27/12/2023 11:57

@sailingdriving I wonder why the founder is relatively silent on the fact he studied (twice) at Israel unis (even though there are lots of viable alternatives) and yet advocates the isolating of Israeli scholars and their schools?

Seems strange behaviour. That he doesn't like talking about.

It doesn't seem like strange behaviour if you do some reading about how Palestinians feel they are treated in Israeli universities and the way they feel Israeli universities support the army in their mistreatment of Palestinians. I know the way Palestinians feel is very often dismissed here but I like to take the time to read about it and learn.

stomachamaleon · 27/12/2023 12:20

He founded it.... it's a founding principle to boycott Israeli institutions, scholars and studies.
He has actively benefited from them.
There are
12 unis on the West Bank.
One in East Jerusalem
Nine in Gaza

And yet he chose Tel Aviv.

When asked about the hypocrisy he sites personal matters.

No complaint on the way he was treated? Hmmmmm

sailingdriving · 27/12/2023 12:22

stomachamaleon · 27/12/2023 12:20

He founded it.... it's a founding principle to boycott Israeli institutions, scholars and studies.
He has actively benefited from them.
There are
12 unis on the West Bank.
One in East Jerusalem
Nine in Gaza

And yet he chose Tel Aviv.

When asked about the hypocrisy he sites personal matters.

No complaint on the way he was treated? Hmmmmm

Maybe he studied there before he got involved in the BDS movement? Ideas can change over time you know.

Desertrose2023 · 27/12/2023 12:28

stomachamaleon · 27/12/2023 12:20

He founded it.... it's a founding principle to boycott Israeli institutions, scholars and studies.
He has actively benefited from them.
There are
12 unis on the West Bank.
One in East Jerusalem
Nine in Gaza

And yet he chose Tel Aviv.

When asked about the hypocrisy he sites personal matters.

No complaint on the way he was treated? Hmmmmm

So what’s your point @stomachamaleon ? Because he studied at an Israeli university he doesn’t have the right to criticize Israel ? That he should owe Israel his life long gratitude? That’s not how it works. I studied in the UK, does that mean I can’t start a movement seeking to change my country if I feel that it’s guilty of oppression and injustice? No - he has every right to do what he’s done so stop trying to paint him as the ungrateful Arab.

OP posts:
sailingdriving · 27/12/2023 12:28

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This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Desertrose2023 · 27/12/2023 12:30

And per his biography I expect the “personal matters” are that he’s married to an Arab Israeli woman and he was living there.

OP posts:
stomachamaleon · 27/12/2023 13:09

@sailingdriving I don't disagree with that but he was already 'active' and in fact students at tel Aviv wanted him removed for that reason. The university stood by him though.

sailingdriving · 27/12/2023 14:12

https://bdsmovement.net/academic-boycott#tab1

On a related note, here is an article on why an Academic boycott is being called for by BDS for those interested.

Universities constitute an organic part of Israel’s military establishment and its role in denying Palestinian rights.

Why boycott Israeli universities?

For decades, Israeli universities have played a key role in planning, implementing and justifying Israel’s occupation and apartheid policies, while maintaining a uniquely close relationship with the Israeli military. Tel Aviv University, for example, has developed tens of weapon systems and the “Dahiya doctrine” of disproportionate force employed by the Israeli military in committing war crimes against Palestinian and Lebanese civilians.

The University of Johannesburg in 2011 severed links with Ben Gurion University over its complicity in Israel's human rights violations, including the theft of Palestinian water. A Human Rights Watch study reveals institutionalized racial discrimination against Palestinians throughout Israel’s education system, including universities.

More info about BDS reasons at link above.

Academic Boycott

Israeli universities are major, willing and persistent accomplices in Israel’s regime of occupation, settler-colonialism and apartheid. They are involved in developing weapon systems and military doctrines deployed in Israel’s recent war crimes in Leba...

https://bdsmovement.net/academic-boycott#tab1

stomachamaleon · 27/12/2023 14:31

@sailingdriving going back to my original point of why would you then Attend one after you have said all of this?
And then give vague reasons why. Nothing concrete.
Odd.

Toothyfruity · 27/12/2023 14:38

stomachamaleon · 27/12/2023 14:31

@sailingdriving going back to my original point of why would you then Attend one after you have said all of this?
And then give vague reasons why. Nothing concrete.
Odd.

Why don't you write to him and ask him? No one here can answer your question no matter how many times you ask it.

sailingdriving · 27/12/2023 14:39

@stomachamaleon I can't speak on behalf of somebody who is not me. Maybe he felt that he could affect more change from within in than outside of it?

I can only judge the BDS on whether their stated principles and arguments seem sound. Their reasoning on the academic boycotts seem fair enough. I'm not going to write these seemingly fair reasons off because one of the people behind the movement attended a University.

And since the Guardian has given him a platform I assume they are convinced of his character enough to allow him column inches.

Anyway I think we should judge ourselves whether the stated boycotts are appropriate rather than getting distracted by something the founder did. It seems like a distraction technique to me.

BigandBeefy · 27/12/2023 14:52

stomachamaleon · 27/12/2023 14:31

@sailingdriving going back to my original point of why would you then Attend one after you have said all of this?
And then give vague reasons why. Nothing concrete.
Odd.

People are also constrained by time and money. Maybe it was the closest place, he needed to work around uni and this worked best, he needed to be there for family obligations cheaper accommodation etc. I'm working with someone I don't particularly want to at the moment but it works for me for reasons that outweigh them being a pain in the ass client. That's how grown up life works for lots, you do what you have to do to get where you want to be even though sometimes you would rather not.

stomachamaleon · 27/12/2023 15:10

You right. I just assumed someone would choose to support any of the numerous Palestinian institutions in the area as a Palestinian nationalism activist. Instead he chose to get two degrees from Israeli institutions.

I will do some more research. Thank you @sailingdriving for your thoughts.

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 20:28

Not convinced some McDonalds, Zara or Starbucks boycotting is going to change any Israeli government decisions or anyone anybody else from doing business long term. It just isn't how business is done or countries make decisions. Plus the Arab states have already said once things quite down again it will be business as usual with Israel, to which Iran apparently had a tantrum at the last Arab conference.

Plus still businessdeals like this are happening even during the conflict they are finalising these deals:
"The new plant, expected to create thousands of new jobs, is going to serve as an extension of the existing Kiryat Gat manufacturing facility. The chipmaker has also committed to buy 60 billion shekels (€15 billion) worth of goods and services from Israeli suppliers over the next ten years. "

https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/12/27/intel-has-just-sealed-the-largest-investment-ever-by-a-company-in-israel

Intel has just sealed the largest investment ever by a company in Israel

Intel has just sealed the largest investment ever in Israel

The chip maker has agreed to invest billions in Israel after securing a generous incentive from the country's government.

https://www.euronews.com/business/2023/12/27/intel-has-just-sealed-the-largest-investment-ever-by-a-company-in-israel

noblegiraffe · 28/12/2023 20:36

I just googled Starbucks and they pulled out of Israel in 2003 so I'm not sure why they're incurring disproportionate amounts of wrath if they don't even operate there?

And boycotting McDonalds is just stupid, they're franchises.

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 20:43

noblegiraffe · 28/12/2023 20:36

I just googled Starbucks and they pulled out of Israel in 2003 so I'm not sure why they're incurring disproportionate amounts of wrath if they don't even operate there?

And boycotting McDonalds is just stupid, they're franchises.

I think you have seen videos of protests outside some of these places haven't you

Most don't know why they are protesting outside these places it seems. If you go on some of the boycott type websites they have some very ropey reasons

However in the case of McDonalds and Starbucks I am hoping that a lot of parents from my school will save money and make their families more healthy by boycotting. So I see the benefits of this latest fad catching on for a bit.

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 20:48

This is a bit no ok though because an event that attracts families every year

There are plenty of Coca-Cola depo or bottle/canning sites in the UK they can hassle if they so wish. No need to be shouting in front of little kids.

https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1740420144093155755

https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1740420144093155755

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 20:52

Batman being used to push a boycotting agenda

Nothing says Merry Christmas quite like it

Consumer Boycotts
stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 20:53

@Trulywonderful how does anyone think that this doesn't stoke division?

Trulywonderful · 28/12/2023 21:02

stomachamaleon · 28/12/2023 20:53

@Trulywonderful how does anyone think that this doesn't stoke division?

Not sure about division but it will definitely put some kids off batman

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