Opinion piece in newspaper -RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews.

[floodlightonwhatisright]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12878659/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-marches-intimidate-British-Jews-tolerate-hatred-streets.html

He raises some interesting ideas.

With respect, if most Jewish people are offended by that phrase, I think the decent thing is to believe them and not use it. Not to decide for yourself that it's not offensive really.

Edited for a typo

If you know it upsets people, why not just bin it?

Don't use it myself @noblegiraffe but is there anything upsetting about other people being free? I often wonder if this minor change of Palestine to Palestinians would make it inoffensive but maintain the basic assertion of freedom as a right.

People seem to be giving the organiser a get out of jail free card. If you are on a committee or in a group organising a march there is a lot you can do. Like kick certain people off the organisers list, like bar certain known Islamic extremists groups or members etc. Then ask the police to expel them if the turn up. Some protest have made statement ahead of the marches to just use the pre designed signs and about behaviour. Which is good. That should happen every time.

Also when behaviour happens on protesters that is dodgy or violent the organisers need to call it out and condemn it at the time and after the marches. Plus others protesting need to learn to do the same. That is the only way those on protests to act verbally or physically violent or promote such behaviour will learn it doesn't fly with everyone eles. That will seriously clean up the image of these protests.

Oh and don't protest outside people's houses or religion places or try to do convoys through Jewish places. Keep it to political offices, businesses and organisations etc. Not personal addresses.

Personally if I were to organise such marches I would discourage the use of that phrase, or anything that might be interpreted wrongly. However the sheer numbers of protesters involved must make things difficult. I think so far it has been handled well by the police given how emotional we all feel about what is happening in the Middle East. Far less violence then a typical Saturday night and it gives people a way to vent their frustrations and show they care. I think there has been efforts to stop signs that might offend certain groups and in some instances arrests. Though there is some islamophobia in this country and in the government and foreign policies, I would not want the UK to become like France and deliberately discriminate against Muslims and take away their right to protest.

Because it’s a contentious slogan used by those who don’t want Israel to exist, so instead of arguing it’s actually fine or just requires minor tweaks to distance itself from calls for the destruction of Israel, wouldn’t it be better to just bin it?

One wonders whether those who continue to use it enjoy the frisson of controversy. Or enjoy upsetting people.

Oh those marchers know its offensive and it's another reason why most folk think that it's used to upset and intimidate otherwise the organisers would forbid it.
I think the marches would be a lot more successful in promoting a message of peace and a hope for ceasefire if they demand hostage release and quit with from the river to the sea - oh and stay out of stores. What's happening is that they are losing any sympathy from the wider community.

Free Palestine slogan not a problem, though some question its meaning etc. It isn't offensive in any way I know about

The free Palestine chant is different because it was well known for years as the Hamas war cry. Plus it suggests to some Palestine should be from the river to the sea. Therefore Israel would not exsist, which is why it has been used by Hamas. The suggestion therefore is seen as calling for ethic cleansing/genocide of Israelis as far as some people see it. This means the people on protests using it are seen as calling for an end to genocide of one group by calling for the genocide of another. A lot of mixed up messaging there depending on what people's own beliefs about the conflict or the chant happened to be. Therefore why people feel the need to use it at all. Plenty of other chants or slogans that wouldn't have mixed up messages they could use. To me it is better to stay on message, don't offend other minority groups or give reason for people to move away from your cause.

@noblegiraffe I suppose they could come up with a completely new slogan, but I don't understand what is wrong with my suggestion really. It's calling for Palestinians to be free rather than Palestine. But you seem quite certain that even that is a bridge too far so I will leave it there. I'm not a slogan shouter myself, but it seems pretty standard for all marches.

It's been handled terribly by the police as they are too scared to do their job.

Simple as.

Because you'd get people chanting the old slogan, people only hearing the first half of the slogan, people hearing it thinking it's the old slogan etc etc.

Easier to bin it completely if you don't want to cause offence. And I think the if there is why some continue to use it.

Oh you know what the problem is with that chant and slogan. You know very well.

Doesn't The Likud party have their own version of "From the River to the Sea”? Does it not capture the long time ambitions of the Israeli right?
Both should be binned, don't you agree?

I think it is a matter of what we believe the marches and protest are actually hoping to achieve. Not what the official line is about their aims but what the organisers really hope to achieve.

If you look at a few of the organisers it definitely has not been about a ceasefire, peace or being interested in Gazens welfare. These people have for years been promoting divide and unrest within their own communities and online

I understand the issue with the original chant, but not why my suggested amendment is offensive. Your response is rather passive aggressive. Are you a mind reader? Are you trying to imply something? Did you even understand my original question?

Whether they do or not, they are not out in the streets of the UK in their thousands, thousands of miles from the conflict, screaming it to intimidate and upset Muslim people.

Yes protesters marching through the UK chanting it from either side should put it in the bin to avoid causing offence.

Anyway, I take it none of you think substituting Palestinians for Palestine is acceptable. Why is a mystery but at least it's clear that no amendments would make the chant acceptable.

Not sure your point here

Just because someone calls out the protests for what they are, doesn't mean they support the Israeli government. It is people that presume such things that are an issue. I mean Giraffe I presume you think is Jewish as well because she is arguing against antisemitism etc. These kind of presumption is something you need to reflect on and address in your views of others and what we post about. If shows who you are not who we are.

I explained why upthread.

Well I guess you have answered my question.

No, No and yes.

It's offensive , upsetting and intimidating whether it is Palestinians or Palestine unless you get rid of from the river to the sea. Which you know.

@noblegiraffe Yes, I see you did now. Thanks for your thoughts.

When it comes to mentioning Israeli a manifesto or whatever to defend or whatabout behaviour in the cases of the protests, it is very simple:

Two wrongs don't make a right

I wish you didn't think yourself a psychic @floodlightonwhatisright No, I didn't know. But the river to sea means the whole area of Israel and the OpT. I did not understand why calling for Palestinians to be free in the region is offensive. However, I hear the reasons of@noblegiraffe which do make sense, possibly you agree with her.