Why Can't Gazans Leave?

[miniaturepixieonacid]

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

Israel is working in very difficult circumstances and held to higher standards than any other army.

I don't understand where this narrative is coming from? They are being asked not to break International Law, the same laws every other army is asked to abide by? What standards do you think they are being asked to abide by that others aren't?

Not true. The only reason Hamas agreed to come to the table in the first place & agree a hostage release was military pressure. They expected Iran and Lebanon to join a ground war on Israeli territory, they were wrong.

The Nazis, ISIS, etc - all considered undefeatable at one point. The Nazi ideology may not be dead but it is seriously diminished from 1945!

It is also nonsense that you have to grow up to hate the people who your ancestors were at war with. I’m British AND a Jew, I’d have to hate most of the world if that was the case. Palestinian kids are taught antisemitic propaganda in schools - that is much more meaningful to how they feel about Jews as adults.

Hamas has to go. Peace is impossible while they are in power and capable of violence. Palestinians are more than welcome to get rid of Hamas themselves instead of the IDF, but the status quo (more October 7ths) is not acceptable.

What should be done about Hamas?
Allow the Palestinians to have free democratic elections which they haven't had since 2006, negotiate a peace settlement with the UN at its core, use international diplomacy to find solutions. I'm sure there are other ways which can work towards a solution. That doesn't involve either killing or displacing over 2 million innocents.

What should be done about Hamas?
Allow the Palestinians to have free democratic elections which they haven't had since 2006

I would imagine it’s Hamas who are preventing this from happening though

And Hamas will just accept the results and disband?

Right…

@madroid oh and the eradication of all Jews. Not just the ones in Israel.
They have money. Billions.
There is too many normal civilians entrenched with Hamas to do that. Whether because of misplaced loyalty or fear.
Even the surrounding countries won't step up. Wonder why? From experience?

@NotABeliever you know what they did to the last people who stood against them? Dragged a man through a refugee camp behind a car to show everyone. Murdered whole families.

This thread contains some of the maddest things I've ever heard. Israel should take in 2million Palestinians while they raze it to the ground? Crazy on so many levels.

Also, Israeli parents are well able to indoctrinate their children too. Some posters here acting as though that only happens in Palestine. A quick look on Tiktok of parents dressing their children up as Palestinians and singing that pro genocide song that's top of the charts in Israel at the moment will tell you that. I won't post examples cos they're gross.

That is actually not the case. Hamas has committed tens of thousands of individual breaches of International Law. Their mission is explicitly genocidal. National security aside, Israel even has a legal obligation under the Genocide Convention to punish Hamas (“never again” doesn’t mean a strongly worded letter, it typically means by use of devastating force). Nobody seems to care.

Yet it’s only Israel (who - I’m not even making this up - has a team of lawyers following them around on operations) who is repeatedly accused of war crimes, seemingly for just having war declared on them. Israel was already being accused of war crimes on October 7th while the attack was still happening and before Israel did anything. Israel has been accused of war crimes based on viral videos depicting Syrians attacked and murdered by Assad several years ago. Israel has been accused of war crimes because Hamas fired missiles at Israeli civilians, missed, and hit Palestinians instead. Israel has been accused of war crimes for shooting combatants throwing IEDs at them. Israel has been accused of war crimes for investigating and prosecuting violent federal crimes that are committed on their own territory. It almost renders the term meaningless.

And when Israel inadvertently kills civilians that are being used as human shields to protect legitimate military targets that is a war crime committed by Hamas.

Spare me.

Israel is committing genocide and you're justifying it.

https://www.newarab.com/news/gaza-most-clear-cut-case-genocide-ex-un-official-says

From yesterday. Copied some of the article below

Craig Mokhiber, formerly head of the UN rights commission's New York office, has accused global powers of complicity in a 'clear-cut case of genocide' by Israel in Gaza.

A top UN official who recently resigned from his post in protest of Israel's war on Gaza has described the brutal campaign as the "most clear-cut case of genocide".

Craig Mokhiber, who was director of the New York office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, resigned from his position on 28 October, saying that the UN had failed to stop a genocide from occurring in Gaza - where Israel has killed more than 15,500 people in less than two months.
Mokhiber doubled down on that position in an interview with The New Arab’s Arabic-language sister site Al-Araby Al-Jadeed, published Sunday.

"I realise that the term 'genocide' is being politicised and misused in some circumstances - so as a human rights lawyer, I am careful to apply the term only when there is a prima facie case and the evidence is clear," Mokhiber said.

"Regarding Gaza, this is the most clear-cut case of genocide I have seen in my career," he said, using the United Nations Convention on Genocide as reference.

"We are witnessing genocide in the 21st century, and it seems that the United Nations is once again unable to stop it."

Mokhiber said Israel has been exceptionally brazen in declaring its intent to commit genocide - partly because Tel Aviv is not being held accountable by its allies.

"most clear cut case of genocide" is pretty damning from a human rights lawyer and the director of the NY UN High Commissioner for Human Rights

Yet it’s only Israel (who - I’m not even making this up - has a team of lawyers following them around on operations) who is repeatedly accused of war crimes, seemingly for just having war declared on them.

This lists the war crimes each side (yes, each side, not just Israel) has been accused of.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war#:~:text=According%20to%20Israeli%20military%20forensic,signs%20of%20rape%20and%20abuse.

Hamas have been accused of war crimes too?

The European Parliament designated Russia a state sponsor of terrorism, arguing that its military strikes on Ukrainian civilian targets such as energy infrastructure, hospitals, schools and shelters violated international law.

Does this sound familiar? Does this sound like Israel are bring held to the same standard as other armies?

There are diplomats and politicians who are experts in this conflict and who can sit around the table to work towards solutions, yes even with the terrorist Hamas. But neither Israel nor Hamas are interested in finding solutions and so the slaughter goes on.

Politicians and diplomats from where? Most of the Arab word is quietly supporting Israel.

This is beyond naive.

How come the Gazans have mobile phones, how are they charging them?
I have heard they access to solar energy - do you think Israel controls the sun?
Also why do they not yet have their own water supply? The Israeli's sorted out salination plants years ago, why don't the Palestinian's do similar?

"Yet it’s only Israel (who - I’m not even making this up - has a team of lawyers following them around on operations) who is repeatedly accused of war crimes, seemingly for just having war declared on them."

With regards to the last part of your statement, underlined, don't you think it's more to do with the fact they are committing, you know, actual war crimes, and actual genocide? You know, the actual thing they are being accused of? Rather than just for "having war declared on them"?

🙄

why don't the Palestinian's do similar?

I would imagine there’s only so much you can do when you’re locked in an open air prison.

"And when Israel inadvertently kills civilians that are being used as human shields to protect legitimate military targets that is a war crime committed by Hamas"

I wouldn't describe dropping thousands of bombs in a densely populated area as "inadvertently" killing thousands of people. The Israelis dont care how many people they kill or displace. They have said they'll carry on "no matter what". What do you think that means? For all their awfulness, Hamas are not the ones dropping the bombs. I'm sure they're contributing to the carnage by using civilians as human shields but this does not absolve the Israelis in any way.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/how-bombings-blockades-and-import-bans-caused-gaza-water-system-to-crumble

Israel has a long history of blockading the water supply and the tools needed to maintain it, maybe this article will give you a clue as to why there are issues with the water in Gaza. Clue: it's not the Gazan's fault.

For all their awfulness, Hamas are not the ones dropping the bombs. I'm sure they're contributing to the carnage by using civilians as human shields

And gang raping, beheading, mutilating with objects, kidnapping, shooting..

@ElevenSeven what is naive is to believe that Israelis are genuinely trying to eradicate Hamas and that killing an indertminate number of innocent civilians is the only way.

What happens if you build something in Palestine?

Power plant? Bombed https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/gaza-power-plant-destroyed-israeli-airstrike-100-palestinians-dead

Airport? Bombed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat_International_Airport#

Check the dates on the articles, this has been happening for decades.

Hamas are 100% despicable terrorists. They're monsters.
That doesn't mean that Israel is justified in what they are doing.