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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Why Can't Gazans Leave?

960 replies

miniaturepixieonacid · 04/12/2023 13:25

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

OP posts:
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75
MissyB1 · 15/12/2023 17:29

Thanks for linking the petition @Parkingt111 signed.

EasterIssland · 15/12/2023 17:41

Thanks for the link for the petition

Efacsen · 16/12/2023 07:42

Pity @Parkingt111 s petition to have family members of people in Gaza come to the UK similar to Ukraine scheme was deleted - think it was probably because petitions have to go on the Petitions Board

Efacsen · 16/12/2023 08:11

IDF reported a 'strike' on the Gaza Egypt border yesterday attacking smuggling tunnels - careful not to hit that wall now!

Misery of the people crammed into Rafah remains unabated

Parker231 · 16/12/2023 08:57

They’ve even destroyed the graveyard

Parker231 · 16/12/2023 08:58

They’ve even destroyed the graveyard

Why Can't Gazans Leave?
MercanDede · 17/12/2023 18:10

Just more and more tragedy.

The three Israeli hostages that escaped and were shot by IDF- shocking

Plus what is happening to the women and girls that have been arrested in Gaza?

”140 women and girls among thousands reportedly detained in north GazaThe UN’s human rights office says it received reports from the north of Gaza of mass detentions, ill-treatment and forced disappearances of possibly thousands of Palestinians at the hands of Israeli soldiers.

They include more than 100 women and girls, most rounded up as they attempted to move south or were taken during operations conducted on their homes, hospitals, schools and other places of refuge.
OHCHR in the occupied Palestinian territory also said:

  • Reports claim children as young as 12 and people as old as 70 are among those detained.
  • Reports suggest many of the detained were subjected to serious ill-treatment, which in some instances may amount to torture.
  • Credible information was also received about 140 women and girls arbitrarily detained and being held in undisclosed locations.
  • Civilians have been killed, including in apparent extrajudicial executions, in places of refuge, particularly schools.“
stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 18:23

@MercanDede I heard some released female detainees talk about women from Gaza being held in Israeli prisons. They were said to be held separately and their treatment was 'very bad.' It was not 140 women and girls though, so there has to be other places where they are kept, if they are still alive. There's no oversight at all, anything could be happening to them. Frankly, I'm really worried for them.

MercanDede · 17/12/2023 19:03

stormy4319trevor · 17/12/2023 18:23

@MercanDede I heard some released female detainees talk about women from Gaza being held in Israeli prisons. They were said to be held separately and their treatment was 'very bad.' It was not 140 women and girls though, so there has to be other places where they are kept, if they are still alive. There's no oversight at all, anything could be happening to them. Frankly, I'm really worried for them.

I am worried too. I am hoping it’s not a revenge move by IDF for Hamas raping and taking Israeli women hostage. The US & allies raped and murdered girls and women in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mentioning that in case anyone thinks I am antisemitically demonising IDF, it’s more that I think they are no better than any other armed group of men when it comes to the suffering they inflict on we women.

Notsuretoputit · 17/12/2023 22:19

MercanDede · 12/12/2023 22:28

There needs to be reform. There should be no special veto power for the allies from WWII (U.K., US, France, Russia and China).

Show quote history

The United Nations would break down if it attempted to carry out enforcement actions against a permanent member.

MercanDede · 17/12/2023 23:19

Notsuretoputit · 17/12/2023 22:19

The United Nations would break down if it attempted to carry out enforcement actions against a permanent member.

Show quote history

Reforming the voting system isn’t an enforcement action.

Notsuretoputit · 17/12/2023 23:35

MercanDede · 17/12/2023 23:19

Reforming the voting system isn’t an enforcement action.

Show quote history

Indeed. Didn’t say it was.

Parkingt111 · 19/12/2023 12:33

Aftermath of a strike in Rafah today. Rafah is in the south, one of the closest areas to the Egyptian border. It is also a safe zone but it has been clear from a long time that there are no safe places in Gaza.

Why Can't Gazans Leave?
Parkingt111 · 19/12/2023 12:34

Pictures are from BBC and not social media. The ones from there were too graphic to post without adding a trigger warning

Why Can't Gazans Leave?
Parkingt111 · 19/12/2023 12:36

This is Gaza
They can't leave. But how they will live after the war when much of Gaza looks like this, I have no idea

stormy4319trevor · 19/12/2023 12:46

That's the thing, isn't it. Even if there was a ceasefire tomorrow there is no housing, no hospitals, roads and sanitation systems not working, dangerous and unstable structures everywhere. It will be a massive operation to clean up and rebuild. In the meantime I don't know how people are supposed to survive.

Parker231 · 19/12/2023 13:18

There is nothing left for them - Israel have even bulldozed their graveyards! Unforgivable.

Efacsen · 19/12/2023 13:20

It's grim isn't it - tho' some things will be better than now - low bar I know

It will be acres and acres of white refugee 'tent cities' but with sanitation, better drainage and more robust tents

People will be warmer, fed and safe from attack

A field hospital and/or tented clinics for healthcare

NGOs will set up tented schools

Then gradually over years [IDK ?decades] these will become more permanent structures..................

The human and financial cost will be vast beyond imagining

stormy4319trevor · 19/12/2023 13:28

When I think of their lovely university, the libraries, archives, schools, places of worship I could cry really. Imagine the loss of all cultural memory, love of learning, spiritual sanctuaries, all that is aspirational And then to live in tents, in a barren desert of rubble and sand.

Efacsen · 19/12/2023 13:30

stormy4319trevor · 19/12/2023 13:28

When I think of their lovely university, the libraries, archives, schools, places of worship I could cry really. Imagine the loss of all cultural memory, love of learning, spiritual sanctuaries, all that is aspirational And then to live in tents, in a barren desert of rubble and sand.

It's totally crap isn't it Sad

Efacsen · 20/12/2023 09:13

Was reading an article yesterday about the destruction of well known archaeological site outside Khan Younis - think it was 33 craters seen on satellite images and it's further destruction by flooding the tunnels there. That's the 3rd place I've seen being subject to flooding despite all the expressed concerns for the water table and environment

Just 'something else' that will destroy Gaza for the future and make it unliveable

Plus bombing isn't sufficient to remove the tunnels even in a wide open space with no housing

.

Christmascountdownpanic · 20/12/2023 09:35

Reuters story shows about 18% of buildings destroyed or damaged at around 6 days ago. If they have a ceasefire after talks today clearance of destroyed buildings could be cleared so people could move into the 80% non damaged buildings. Permanent ceasefire could lead to rebuild and people moving from the dreadful conditions in the tent camps.

Aid to rebuild and mediation needed.

Christmascountdownpanic · 20/12/2023 09:39

Parker231 · 19/12/2023 13:18

There is nothing left for them - Israel have even bulldozed their graveyards! Unforgivable.

That's not true. Reuters state 18% of buildings destroyed or damaged not everything. There are 25,000 dead. There are 2.5 million people there still. Hopefully a ceasefire can be agreed and permanent. Facts and logic needed from both sides to move forward.