Why Can't Gazans Leave?

[miniaturepixieonacid]

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports.

It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go.

I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting.

But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

I've got covid at the moment, feel like shit and am laid up with a fever, I've spent the past 24hrs in my cosy bed with dh bringing me meds and drinks. I can't even imagine being this ill and having to sleep on the ground outside under plastic in the rain with no meds, no water, no privacy and no dignity. Its shameful.

@OuiOuiKitty it doesn't bear thinking about. I hope you get well soon. Covid is no fun.

Estimated to be 50,000 people in Al Mawasi now and running out of space

No food aid delivered for 2 days - journalists being approached for food

@OuiOuiKitty hope you feel better soon

UK and US becoming isolated - they shouldn’t have such power to block a ceasefire vote

If PP are wondering why journalists can get to Al Mawasi but food aid deliveries can't - UN workers are having difficulty getting into work and roads too dangerous/ damaged because of the bombardment, shortage of lorries, food aid being looted by starving civilians and convoys being stoned as UN is being blamed

UN says that their ability to continue to provide humanitarian aid is compromised in so many ways

It's a hopeless situation at this point for 2 million people trapped in Gaza. What can be done now that Israel's bombardment isn't stopping and the aid isn't getting in? It's heartbreaking really.

I did read that Israel would like to carry on until the end of January, while the US is happy to for them to carry on until the end of the month. Not sure where I read that, or if any one else saw it? If it's the case I suppose they will have modelled projected deaths and come up with a number they feel happy about. God knows what that is.

@stormy4319trevor I have read similar
The US want it over by the end of the year and Israel wants to continue for longer which is causing a strain between the two countries

@stormy4319trevor this was on sky news today

it is also evident that the US is increasingly uncomfortable with rising civilian casualties, and is looking for Israel to conclude its military action before Christmas.
But when will Israel have achieved its military objectives and what are Israel's metrics of success?
Israel claims to have killed 5,000 Hamas fighters so far in the two months of fighting to date.
However, Hamas is reported to have started the conflict with 25,000 fighters, so extrapolating progress to date, that would imply that Israel will need another eight months to complete their military objectives.
Meanwhile, 60% of the buildings in Gaza have now sustained some form of war damage as the IDF continues to target Hamas infrastructure

@Parkingt111 In some ways it's good to know there's an end date in mind. But it's also horrifying to think it could go on another 3 weeks, or longer if Israel gets an extension.

The thing is that this is what the US wants.
But Israel is pushing back on it and that is what is supposedly causing the strain
They US signed off emergency ammunition to Israel today I believe or will be doing so very soon so as has already been said
The US says one thing but contradicts itself with actions that say otherwise

But when will Israel have achieved its military objectives and what are Israel's metrics of success?
Israel claims to have killed 5,000 Hamas fighters so far in the two months of fighting to date

Bombing Hamas into submission is not going to work mainly because their leaders are (as I understand it) not actually in Gaza. Even if Israel took control of Gaza Hamas would probably linger on and there would still be terrorist attacks.

I’m not sure what the solution is to be honest. Both sides have extreme intolerant outlooks so even diplomacy may not work.

@Anotherdayanotherdiet yes it's true I agree to that
The above was a analysis from sky news
And ofcourse it's just as an estimate not that the war will continue for that long (I sincerely hope not!)

And ofcourse it's just as an estimate not that the war will continue for that long (I sincerely hope not!)
**
I don’t think they got all the hostages back? I can’t see the war ending till they are all accounted for.

Well Hamas have said they won't release all the remaining hostages until there is a permanent ceasefire
However at this point it's not known for sure how many hostages are alive and also how they can be rescued alive by the IDF
I don't think there are any negotiations happening right now either which is very unfortunate

Well Hamas have said they won't release all the remaining hostages until there is a permanent ceasefire
However at this point it's not known for sure how many hostages are alive and also how they can be rescued alive by the IDF
I don't think there are any negotiations happening right now either which is very unfortunate

Do we know why Hamas have exchanged some hostages and not others? I remember reading somewhere that some hostages are not actually being held by Hamas so maybe that’s it.

I think part of the problem is that Israel does feel genuinely threatened by Hamas now. The rockets etc weren’t harmless obviously but the recent attack is comparable to 9/11. Israel are not necessarily going to stop until Hamas have lost their base of operations (Gaza)at least. The fact that the people who live in Gaza will be left destitute or dead does not matter so much to them.

@Anotherdayanotherdiet the hostages who were released first were done according to categories that were negotiated in the truce.
Yes, Hamas did say that other groups were holding some hostages.
There has been many who are much more knowledgeable than myself who have shown concern that Israel's current strategy will not necessarily bring them the peace and safety they aim to obtain through this war.
Praying we see better days soon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67652494

You might find this interesting
It talks briefly about the stances of Netanyahu, Biden, the possible new head of the PA etc and also where the US draws its red lines

I’m not sure if the Israeli authorities are giving much thought to the hostages. They are happy to use the atrocities as an excuse to attack all of Gaza.

I think it may have taken both Hamas and the international community by surprise how little interest the Israeli authorities had in negotiations to get the hostages back.

And then there was huge pressure from within Israel and they decided to negotiate. ultimately Israel is only creating a new generation of terrorists right now in Gaza. They won’t kill the Hamas ideology with bombs, horror , destruction, disease and dead children.

I think they care more about taking land and having this historic “Jewish homeland” rather than human rights, peace, safety and justice for both Gazan and Israeli citizens. I don’t think it is about feeling threatened per se. Like obviously they have a distinct advantage- controlling all the borders, the airspace, the electricity… it’s not hard to see who will “win” but the ultimate price will be paid with lives of innocents on both sides.

I think they care more about taking land and having this historic “Jewish homeland” rather than human rights, peace, safety and justice for both Gazan and Israeli citizens. I don’t think it is about feeling threatened per se.

Oh I’m not trying to claim Israel’s government cares about human rights. My theory was that Israel wanted the Gazans to leave via the Rafah border into Egypt and that’s why the were driving them south (and why Hamas apparently tried to stop them).

It’s more that I’m worried that since there is a lot at stake it is more unlikely Israel will stop its attacks.

Poor old Zelenskiy watching his support dry up and Israel filching his much needed ammo and turned down by Netanhayu for a solidarity visit.Putin probably can't believe his luck at how quickly die hard solidarity pivots on a sixpence.Plus he gets to bluster that he doesn't kill civilians like the Israelis do.

Not directly, at least, about leaving Gaza - at midnight IDF destroyed the 2 roads linking Khan Younis to Rafah making it difficult for civilians to leave KY and for humanitarian/medical aid to reach civilians/hospitals there

Though in reality UNWRA says they are not able to deliver aid beyond Rafah atm because of the bombardment anyway

Yesterday, desperate thirsty people were allegedly fighting one another for water at Al Mawasi - so no help appears to be arriving there

Guterres is reportedly still seeking a ceasefire [Doha Conference] and Biden is sending more ammunition

IDF have announced brief 'humanitarian pause' in Rafah today so hopefully more aid will be able to be distributed to areas outside Rafah itself

@Efacsen adding the word "humanitarian" into anything related to this conflict, even a pause, seems warped somehow. Although it is a small ray of light that there will be one.