Page 19 | Why Can't Gazans Leave?

miniaturepixieonacid · 2023-12-04T13:25:02+00:00

There is probably a very simple answer to this that I missed in early news reports. It's so awful watching News Feeds that essentially seem to say that Gazans are having to move around in a cat and mouse game with the IDF to avoid bombs but have nowhere left to go. I am very aware that war has casualties and other countries are at war. I am not necessarily saying that IDF should stop fighting. But this war is different in that all civilians seem to be trapped. Normally war creates refugees. Ukrainians, Afghans, Syrians - they were able to get out. Not all, I know, but movement was an option and it kept civilian casualties down. Why can't Gazans leave Gaza?

Livinginanotherworld · 07/12/2023 23:09

Toothyfruity · 07/12/2023 22:48

I can't believe the levels of inhumanity from pro Israeli posters on this thread.

There is ample evidence of genocide all over the internet in this conflict. The rounding up of these men is absolutely horrendous. The comments here are disgusting.

No amount of evidence will get through to these people. Obviously they don't see Palestinians as human. Or not as human as Israelis anyway.

It's making my stomach turn.

Edited

This. It’s just sickening.

Livinginanotherworld · 07/12/2023 23:12

OuiOuiKitty · 07/12/2023 23:00

Yup. I'm back away from these threads for a while. The rapid radicalisation of pro war posters is horrifying to witness. Who would have thought it would be so easy to convince people in 2023 that genocide is for the benefit of the world.

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Yes, I’ve been trying to step away as well, but then I read such horrific posts from people standing with Israel committing war crimes. I find it hard to believe people could be so inhuman and cold hearted.

EasterIssland · 07/12/2023 23:16

@OuiOuiKitty take as much time as you need to protect your MH. ❤️

paladium · 07/12/2023 23:16

@Livinginanotherworld agree. It's horrific. I am so grateful to all the people standing against this, here on MN and around the world, refusing to be silent in the face of the inhumanity. Refusing to accept the lies, dehumanisation and propaganda. At the very least, the people of Gaza deserve us speaking up for them.

SeeReality · 07/12/2023 23:29

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paladium · 07/12/2023 23:35

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SeeReality · 08/12/2023 00:03

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cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 00:15

stomachameleon · 07/12/2023 22:16

I think it's a bit naive to think a terrorist organisation that is known for hiding itself among the population would be striding around like the paras in full army gear.

Surely the intelligent amongst us would know they would attempt to blend in. Not be spotted in boots and camo. The pictures I have seen of hierarchy eg sinwar they are dressed 'normally'

I agree more info is needed though. I don't blame the IDF for being cautious whatever. It's a war.

It blows my mind… I mean you have the unconditional surrender of all those Hamas operatives, no lives lost, civilian or combatant, it’s an optimal battle outcome. And people actually turn that around and say it proves Israel is evil, that they’re sl-t-shaming terrorists, and also casually complain about our “genetics” 🤯 there’s nothing they can’t twist and what a dogwhistle

Whatamidoinhere · 08/12/2023 00:34

So appalling that civilians were identified among the men captured, stripped and treated inhumanely, yet some people are still finding excuses to justify it. Israel can do no wrong for those who support it. A genocide is perfectly excusable for them. This is a level of inhumanity that I find mind-numbing.

Ibizafun · 08/12/2023 00:42

Depdawg · 04/12/2023 13:33

Other countries dont want to risk terrorists in their domain, who then wont leave.

^^This!

FrozenWindscreen · 08/12/2023 01:38

Livinginanotherworld · 07/12/2023 22:37

They have already identified one local respected journalist and his family and are working to identify as many as possible of these poor innocent civilians so they at least have a record of what happened to them. Be in no doubt, this is a war crime and is inhumane and appalling. They are rounding up any men and boys 15 years and older, they are executing them. This is horrific.

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Where have you got it from that they have been executed?

Media reports say they were taken to an undisclosed location.

How do you know they are innocent civilians? We know civilians (or Palestinians not dressed in fatigues and Hamas head gear) were involved in the atrocities on October 7th. They filmed themselves spitting on Shani Louk’s naked, broken, dead body for a start.

They look middle aged and unfit? Have you seen the Hamas leaders? Or Israeli leaders and commanders for that matter.

Palestinians have a history of suicide bombings and stabbing attacks on Israelis which is probably why they were made to strip.

There is quite a bit googleable about UNWRA’s alleged allegiance with terrorist groups. This is dated 2007 so long before this current conflict. Obviously most posters will disbelieve it but it sheds light on Israel’s perspective which is what they will be acting on.

https://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/2007/08/31/how-unrwa-supports-hamas/

It is noticeable that some posters get more and more hysterical when others have conflicting views that don’t fit in with the accepted rhetoric.

How UNRWA Supports Hamas – Jewish Policy Center

Palestinians in the new Islamic State of Gaza, crying out for more aid from the United Nations, are turning to United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) for help. Their reliance upon UNRWA comes as no surprise. The organization has been providing...

https://www.jewishpolicycenter.org/2007/08/31/how-unrwa-supports-hamas/

twilightmoon3 · 08/12/2023 04:49

Dulra · 07/12/2023 22:16

Just watching BBC news at 10. Jeremy Bowen interviewing an Israeli politician from the religious zionist party, asking what's the answer an everlasting occupation? his response... Occupation is not the word, one cannot occupy his own land, Bowen asks "Gaza that's the land of Israel?" His response yes land of Israel you can not be occupying it.

So there we have it, they see it as their land they don't see themselves as occupiers, unbelievable arrogance.

When God's name's on the title deed there can be no doubt whose land it is. Funny though that God gave the Arabs oil but Israel a desert or maybe it's all a load of religious nut jobbery and humanity without ethnicity or religion would have a chance of prospering and surviving. One race the human race.

iloveeverykindofcat · 08/12/2023 06:30

@paladium It doesn't help that Palestinians have been systematically dehumanized by the global media industry for decades. I'm not even talking about the internal Israeli propaganda which literally depicts them as walking targets, thats another thread altogether, I'm talking about the way Palestinians have historically been uncounted, ignored and treated as collateral damage in the arena of global politics. The only reason I know about Palestine is because I'm Arab. I can see my relatives' faces and hear their voices in the videos coming out of Gaza. Most of my friends, a reasonably educated group, are now learning about what has been done to Palestinians for the first time.

If anything good can ever come out of this unending atrocity, it may be that Palestinian lives will not be so easily discounted in the future.

EasterIssland · 08/12/2023 07:12

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 00:15

It blows my mind… I mean you have the unconditional surrender of all those Hamas operatives, no lives lost, civilian or combatant, it’s an optimal battle outcome. And people actually turn that around and say it proves Israel is evil, that they’re sl-t-shaming terrorists, and also casually complain about our “genetics” 🤯 there’s nothing they can’t twist and what a dogwhistle

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Where is the proof that this people are Hamas members ? A real proof please

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 08:13

EasterIssland · 08/12/2023 07:12

Where is the proof that this people are Hamas members ? A real proof please

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They all terror suspects, all of them.

The surrender is a good thing.

paladium · 08/12/2023 08:15

@EasterIssland there you have it. Definitive "proof" from Cauliflowerwaterfall.

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 08:36

So you think the IDF are thinking “obviously these are just a bunch of civilians coincidentally the rough age and sex of the other terrorists, innocently hanging out with terrorists, underground in a terrorist bunker, during a time we are at war with terrorists, who are surrendering to us, but we’re so evil let’s take these very unlikely suspects in for questioning anyway.”

backtowinter · 08/12/2023 08:58

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 08:36

So you think the IDF are thinking “obviously these are just a bunch of civilians coincidentally the rough age and sex of the other terrorists, innocently hanging out with terrorists, underground in a terrorist bunker, during a time we are at war with terrorists, who are surrendering to us, but we’re so evil let’s take these very unlikely suspects in for questioning anyway.”

That's EXACTLY what some posters think

They must all be innocent because...? Well, I'm not sure anymore what the current reason is

Toothyfruity · 08/12/2023 09:04

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 08:36

So you think the IDF are thinking “obviously these are just a bunch of civilians coincidentally the rough age and sex of the other terrorists, innocently hanging out with terrorists, underground in a terrorist bunker, during a time we are at war with terrorists, who are surrendering to us, but we’re so evil let’s take these very unlikely suspects in for questioning anyway.”

They were taken from a school where civilians are sheltering because the IDF destroyed their homes.

I'm pretty sure Hamas don't surrender either. I would imagine they'd rather fight and die than be taken prisoner by Israel. We know how Israel treats children and women it detains I can't imagine how they'd treat Hamas members.

Your immediate acceptance that these are all terrorists who deserve this fate says a lot about your opinion of Palestinians

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 09:05

backtowinter · 08/12/2023 08:58

That's EXACTLY what some posters think

They must all be innocent because...? Well, I'm not sure anymore what the current reason is

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I have also seen posters claim they have been executed based on a photo of them alive.

Earlier on in the thread people were saying the Israelis shouldn’t kill poor terrorists during combat they should take them alive for questioning and prosecution. Now they have done just that and people feel sorry for them being split from their families.

The IDF can’t win 😂

Parkingt111 · 08/12/2023 09:12

@cauliflowerwaterfall the point you seemed to have missed is that there were civilians in there that have been identified hence the concern as we know the IDF's history in handling potential suspects

You and others have automatically branded them all as terrorists when even the IDF haven't said that, according to the last update I have read this morning

There also hasn't been any updates on whether those who were known civilians and not Hamas have been released

paladium · 08/12/2023 09:19

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backtowinter · 08/12/2023 09:22

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I never trust a terrorist organisation and can't understand those who do

But you do you

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 09:24

You did not just accuse the IDF of organ harvesting… that’s blood libel

Efacsen · 08/12/2023 09:29

cauliflowerwaterfall · 08/12/2023 09:24

You did not just accuse the IDF of organ harvesting… that’s blood libel

They actually admitted to harvesting organs following an investigation in 2009 but said at the time it had stopped. Verified evidence has been posted several times before

So not 'blood libel'